On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>wrote:
> Gregory said:
> "Please explain or describe to me the 'mechanism' or 'method' by which
> 'ideas evolve.' If you'd like, pick an example or just to speak abstractly
> or theoretically."
>
> That is so easy.
>
> Look at any modern product, such as a computer. All the parts- from
> hardware to software, evolved. That is, more complex ideas arose based on
> previous simpler ideas.
>
> Idea evolution formula:
> Previous idea + insight from thinking = new idea.
> Repeat over and over, endlessly.
>
> You object to the "insight from thinking" part as if evolution can't have
> intelligence as a part of the mechanism. That's where you go wrong. Even
> in biological evolution, in higher forms of animals, natural selection
> involves intelligence. For example, certain lion kings killing other males
> to maintain their dominance. That is driven by intelligence.
Hahaha. So, it seems you may have just advocated ID in the exact same way
I always did. Completely able to be analyzed by science. Unless you are
advocating its intelligence without design. But what is design? Design is
forseeing the future, and saying "I am in state A right now, I want to be in
state B, what can I do to get from A to B? which wouldn't otherwise happen
if I don't apply intelligence? Thats *all* that ID is. Even birds exhibit
this. They design things that wouldnt otherwise happen if they didnt apply
their intelligence.
I believe there are also similar examples at the level of bugs... but don't
> want to spend time looking it up just now.
>
> Dr. Campbell may even be able to tell you some things that clams do, using
> their intelligence, to stay alive (such as migration?).
>
> I suspect Dr Campbell will tell you an analysis of intelligence isn't
allowed by science.
> ...Bernie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Gregory Arago
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 9:55 AM
> To: asa@calvin.edu; Randy Isaac
> Subject: Re: [asa] Evolution Conference Washington, DC - language confusion
>
> Hi Randy,
>
> Please explain or describe to me the 'mechanism' or 'method' by which
> 'ideas evolve.' If you'd like, pick an example or just to speak abstractly
> or theoretically. Otherwise, it is rather easy to dismiss you as having wax
> in your ears; you listen, but hear nothing I say.
>
> Ideas do not 'evolve'. Sure, they change. But 'change' and 'evolution' are
> not the same thing.
>
> There has been zero willingness on your part to confront this reality,
> unfortunately, and now the only option left is to assume it is a willful
> denial of knowledge on your part. Every single person I've spoken with on
> this issue 'gets it.' Perhaps the problem is the medium of communication?
>
> I write directly like this, since you were recently the President of ASA
> and if you are going to say something like "The title...seem[s] appropriate"
> as if that has authority, when I made a clear argument against it, then you
> should be able to explain your view. I don't think you can and I submit that
> you are displaying a lack of 'proper tools' to evaluate the topic. But I say
> this, of course, with due respect and humility for other aspects of your
> participation and contribution to 'science(, philosophy) and religion'
> discourse. The conference could be a great one for what it is, but this
> doesn't excuse the misworded title.
>
> Do you think 'ideas evolve,' Randy Isaac: yes or no? If yes, what gives you
> such confidence to say apples (biological entities) are oranges (ideas) or
> vice versa? Evolutionary theory 'evolves' you say, Randy?
>
> Yours disappointed (again and again) by American evolutionistic dogma,
> Gregory
>
>
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Received on Tue Sep 15 09:38:59 2009
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