RE: [asa] Louie Giglio

Bernie,

I did acknowledge that he probably overstated the case. As regards your
statement that he uses this as a fulfillment of the scripture verse, he does
come dangerously close to this by asking, "How do (we) know that God
literally holds us together? We need to go a little deeper into the human
body..." and then goes into an extended lead-in to the subject of laminin.
However, after that point, though he uses it as an analogy of Christ holding
us together, he doesn't drive home the point anything like what you ascribed
to him, as "saying God planted these as signs to scientists". (Note, I
don't have any particular motivation to defend Giglio, but just pointing out
that he didn't say this. Whether he did elsewhere, or if others took his
words further than he did, I can't say.)

In fact at the end of that segment, he says, "So you're at the toughest
place in your life. How can you know that God is going to hold you
together?" He *doesn't* answer the question by saying, you know it because
there is a somewhat-cross-shaped protein in every cell of your body.
Rather, he answers it with, "You know because there is a cross standing over
history, and it is looming over this building tonight. It is the place
where the 'star breather' became the sin bearer. Where the 'universe maker'
became mankind's savior. And it is proof that God doesn't always change the
circumstances. He did not change them for Jesus on that hillside...." And
from there, he doesn't really make any more of laminin. Seems like fairly
basic preaching of the cross to me.

Jon Tandy

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 12:26 PM
To: 'asa'
Subject: RE: [asa] Louie Giglio

Jon said:
"For those who might have a strong objection to his use of the "laminin
parable", really I would have to ask whether they might object to the Lord's
own use of such things as the mustard seed. "The kingdom of heaven is like
a grain of mustard seed...which indeed is the least of all seeds, but when
it is grown it is the greatest of herbs". We know there are significant
scientific objections to this analogy that literalists try to step around;
yet the point was not to open Christ to accusations of scientific
inaccuracy, but to inform the minds and move the hearts of His followers on
the nature of the kingdom. Giglio's presentation is indeed spiritually
moving and thus of value, considering the purpose and the audience for which
it was intended - as long as the analogy isn't taken too much further."

My point is that if he would have used Laminin as Jesus did, as you say
above, that would be fine (we agree totally). But he seems to go overboard
in saying that it is a fulfillment of the scripture verse "Jesus holds all
things together" as if God did this on purpose to give a hint to molecular
biologists (just like placing a cross in the cosmos for those peering into
space). The schematic drawing of Laminin does look like a cross- but you
have to really cherry-pick to get the microscope image. The schematic
diagram also would not look like a cross if it would have been drawn
upside-down or sideways- as if there is such a thing as drawing upside-down,
because there is no true "north" with these things. For example- a person
into warfare could have drawn in sideways and said it represented a sword.
In this way- it is like seeing the face of Mary on the side of a building.
Seeing it and thinking nice things is one way, but setting up a shrine as
some Catholics would is overboard. In the same way- these could be nice
illustrations- but going overboard to saying God planted these as signs to
scientists. When someone sees the face of Jesus on a sandwich, does that
mean it is a sign from God? Notice the difference in use of illustrations
with this and Jesus- Jesus didn't use examples of things that visually
looked like things to explain heavenly things, he used everyday experiences
to illustrate the heavenly kingdom. He didn't say the mustard seed looked
like anything in heaven- his example was going from very small to huge-
unbelievably huge from such a small beginning (a mustard seed is a small
fraction of the size of a bird, but the plant from the seed is big enough to
support several birds).

.Bernie

  _____

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of Jon Tandy
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 9:53 AM
To: 'asa'
Subject: [asa] Louie Giglio

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Received on Mon Jan 26 21:18:16 2009