RE: [asa] Is Science an enemy of faith?

Just to clarify, the quote below attributed to me was from Jon Tandy.

And what I said was that "that the type of evil that could potentially be
unleashed by Dawkins et al and their militaristic anti-Christian hatred would be unprecedented "

Thanks

John

--- On Mon, 1/12/09, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com> wrote:

> From: Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
> Subject: RE: [asa] Is Science an enemy of faith?
> To: "asa@calvin.edu" <asa@calvin.edu>
> Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 1:22 PM
> John wrote:
> " Saying that Dawkins-esque anti-Christian public
> rhetoric is "unprecedented" seems frankly
> foolhardy and ridiculous."
>
> Dawkins may be correct when he talks about the
> war-mongering fundamentalist Christians who support Israel
> solely because Israel is God's chosen people, rather
> than being UNBIASED in the peace process (this is where
> Obama is a fresh hope- being unbiased, unlike Bush). People
> like Pastor Hagee and his CUFI organization give Christ a
> bad name. If it wasn't for that, I'd say Christians
> do not cause war and persecutions, but people like Pastor
> Hagee are the ones pushing the world into war and
> escalation.
>
> These kinds of people are called "Christian
> Zionists" and I think explained well at wikipedia:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionists
>
> Just my thoughts. If we don't want atheists accusing
> us of being war-mongers, we should clean our own house, and
> get back to being Christ-like. "They will know we are
> Christians by our ..." (the answer is love). Jesus
> told us how to teat our enemies- and CUFI does the opposite
> by advocating the continued persecution of Palestianians...
> no wonder they blow themselves up- I think anyone in the
> same circumstances would be greatly encouraged to, when
> living in a helpless and suppressed society (and currently-
> terrorized by daily death from bombs).
>
> I'm not for either side- but for justice and fairness,
> which seems to be lacking. Obama is a hope for remedying
> that. Note his continual talk of being
> "neighborly" which is now sorely lacking.
>
> ...Bernie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Jon Tandy
> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 7:43 PM
> To: asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: RE: [asa] Is Science an enemy of faith?
>
> John,
>
> I'm not saying that the evil in the world today
> isn't bad, nor that it won't
> get much worse, possibly soon. I tend to agree with you on
> that.
>
> My comments were, and continue to be, related to the
> logical difficulties
> behind many of these statements. For instance,
> Christianity may have
> already been displaced in modern society, but it wasn't
> even present during
> Nimrod's reign, nor during the first half of the reign
> of the Romans. After
> Christ, Christianity wasn't exactly prevalent in
> society for the first few
> hundred years. And Dawkins has a long way to go to surpass
> the brutality of
> Romans' public execution of Christians by lions and by
> crucifixion. Saying
> that Dawkins-esque anti-Christian public rhetoric is
> "unprecedented" seems
> frankly foolhardy and ridiculous.
>
> If things do get quite a lot worse for Christians, and we
> begin to be
> persecuted unto death for our beliefs, it won't be
> unprecedented. I presume
> that the source of a modern-day persecution would be the
> same as it always
> was before Darwin -- the influence of evil in the hearts of
> men, of man's
> inhumanity to man, driven by Satanic hatred. Our toys
> (i.e. nuclear
> weapons) just happen to be more potentially destructive
> than theirs. You
> could substitute Islam for Dawkins or Darwinism, and make
> the same point.
>
> Jon Tandy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Walley [mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 8:11 PM
> To: asa@calvin.edu; Jon Tandy
> Subject: RE: [asa] Is Science an enemy of faith?
>
> Jon,
>
> Sorry for the delay but I have been having problems with my
> internet.
>
> Yes I do think the evil today is still different from
> Nimrod and the Romans
> in that today's evil at least in the Western world is
> displacing
> Christianity as the previous prevailing influence. Not that
> this necessarily
> establishes anything specific but it is different.
>
> I hope you are right and history proves this fear unfounded
> but it does seem
> to me that the type of evil that could potentially be
> unleashed by Dawkins
> et al and their militaristic anti-Christian hatred would be
> unprecedented in
> history.
>
> Thanks
>
> John
>
>
>
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Received on Mon Jan 12 19:47:46 2009