RE: [asa] Is Science an enemy of faith?

John wrote:
" Saying that Dawkins-esque anti-Christian public rhetoric is "unprecedented" seems frankly foolhardy and ridiculous."

Dawkins may be correct when he talks about the war-mongering fundamentalist Christians who support Israel solely because Israel is God's chosen people, rather than being UNBIASED in the peace process (this is where Obama is a fresh hope- being unbiased, unlike Bush). People like Pastor Hagee and his CUFI organization give Christ a bad name. If it wasn't for that, I'd say Christians do not cause war and persecutions, but people like Pastor Hagee are the ones pushing the world into war and escalation.

These kinds of people are called "Christian Zionists" and I think explained well at wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionists

Just my thoughts. If we don't want atheists accusing us of being war-mongers, we should clean our own house, and get back to being Christ-like. "They will know we are Christians by our ..." (the answer is love). Jesus told us how to teat our enemies- and CUFI does the opposite by advocating the continued persecution of Palestianians... no wonder they blow themselves up- I think anyone in the same circumstances would be greatly encouraged to, when living in a helpless and suppressed society (and currently- terrorized by daily death from bombs).

I'm not for either side- but for justice and fairness, which seems to be lacking. Obama is a hope for remedying that. Note his continual talk of being "neighborly" which is now sorely lacking.

...Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Jon Tandy
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 7:43 PM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: [asa] Is Science an enemy of faith?

John,

I'm not saying that the evil in the world today isn't bad, nor that it won't
get much worse, possibly soon. I tend to agree with you on that.

My comments were, and continue to be, related to the logical difficulties
behind many of these statements. For instance, Christianity may have
already been displaced in modern society, but it wasn't even present during
Nimrod's reign, nor during the first half of the reign of the Romans. After
Christ, Christianity wasn't exactly prevalent in society for the first few
hundred years. And Dawkins has a long way to go to surpass the brutality of
Romans' public execution of Christians by lions and by crucifixion. Saying
that Dawkins-esque anti-Christian public rhetoric is "unprecedented" seems
frankly foolhardy and ridiculous.

If things do get quite a lot worse for Christians, and we begin to be
persecuted unto death for our beliefs, it won't be unprecedented. I presume
that the source of a modern-day persecution would be the same as it always
was before Darwin -- the influence of evil in the hearts of men, of man's
inhumanity to man, driven by Satanic hatred. Our toys (i.e. nuclear
weapons) just happen to be more potentially destructive than theirs. You
could substitute Islam for Dawkins or Darwinism, and make the same point.

Jon Tandy

-----Original Message-----
From: John Walley [mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 8:11 PM
To: asa@calvin.edu; Jon Tandy
Subject: RE: [asa] Is Science an enemy of faith?

Jon,

Sorry for the delay but I have been having problems with my internet.

Yes I do think the evil today is still different from Nimrod and the Romans
in that today's evil at least in the Western world is displacing
Christianity as the previous prevailing influence. Not that this necessarily
establishes anything specific but it is different.

I hope you are right and history proves this fear unfounded but it does seem
to me that the type of evil that could potentially be unleashed by Dawkins
et al and their militaristic anti-Christian hatred would be unprecedented in
history.

Thanks

John

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Received on Mon Jan 12 13:24:10 2009