RE: [asa] Advice for conversing with YECs (miracle timing)

Hi Moorad-

 Can I answer your question with a question? Here it is:

 Does God make the flowers grow, or is it the process of photosynthesis? Which one?

 I think what we are trying to discover is how God does things, and when we see them done in naturalistic manners, there is no difference between atheism and TE because both are looking at the natural (not supernatural) processes. Science (by definition) is in the business of discovering natural processes only, so TE would agree with atheist evolutionary theory.

...Bernie

________________________________
From: Alexanian, Moorad [mailto:alexanian@uncw.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:56 AM
To: Dehler, Bernie; asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: [asa] Advice for conversing with YECs (miracle timing)

What scientific questions creation by TE answers that cannot be answered by ordinary, non-theistic evolutionary theory?
Moorad

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:49 PM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: [asa] Advice for conversing with YECs (miracle timing)

"And you draw a false distinction by implying that creation by TE is not a miracle. I think it is, but just not a sudden miracle, a timed release one."

A "time-released" miracle- that sounds funny,,, and I like it! ;-)

...Bernie

________________________________
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of John Walley
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:36 PM
To: asa@calvin.edu; James Patterson; gregoryarago@yahoo.ca
Subject: RE: [asa] Advice for conversing with YECs (Cheek turning)

>'The science' (rather monolithically stated) is a bit too big for its britches sometimes, isn't >it John?

No I don't think so. I too was an RTB PC like James for years until I read Francis Collins and found someone who dealt with the scientific evidence honestly. That is why I say psuedogenes are the smoking gun for CD. Once you accept that, the only intellectually honest conclusion is TE, which is where I came to, albeit kicking and screaming.

I understand and empathize with the RTB PC position and I know giving it up is painful, but it just doesn't work.

And you draw a false distinction by implying that creation by TE is not a miracle. I think it is, but just not a sudden miracle, a timed release one. TE and OEC are not that far apart on most issues except this very one but it is a major one. It means the difference between science and faith, and relevance and scorn.

But I will rephrase my use of "'the scientific and thinking community" to "the rational and thinking community". I know there are exceptions like YEC including scientists but again I contend that the only rational conclusion of the evidence of CD is TE. All this hand waving and appeals to "appearance of imperfection" arguments are embarassing and just really immature.

Thanks

John

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Wed Oct 29 15:05:01 2008