Re: [asa] Advice for conversing with YECs (Cheek turning)

Will they go ape about it?

But seriously you have a very good point and can be repeated on several
other things.

The evidence for evolution is inescapable except by pleading only an
appearance.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Walley" <john_walley@yahoo.com>
To: <james000777@bellsouth.net>; "gordon brown" <Gordon.Brown@Colorado.EDU>;
<asa@calvin.edu>; "Jack Syme" <drsyme@verizon.net>
Cc: <mark.whorton@nasa.gov>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [asa] Advice for conversing with YECs (Cheek turning)

> Agreed again. It is the equivalent as the YEC's "Appearance of Age"
> conundrum and we ex-RTBers call it the "Appearance of Ancestry" argument.
>
> They concede it looks like we share ancestry with chimps but dismiss the
> actual conclusion.
>
> Thanks
>
> John
>
>
> --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Jack Syme <drsyme@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Jack Syme <drsyme@verizon.net>
>> Subject: Re: [asa] Advice for conversing with YECs (Cheek turning)
>> To: james000777@bellsouth.net, "gordon brown"
>> <Gordon.Brown@Colorado.EDU>, asa@calvin.edu
>> Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 6:43 PM
>> It isnt just that the gene is broken. It is that the place
>> that the gene is
>> broken is the same in species that are more closely
>> related. Of course
>> guinea pigs cant make vitamin C either, but that mutation
>> is different.
>> Since humans are more closely related genetically to apes,
>> than other
>> primates and other animals, and that the mutation in apes
>> and humans is the
>> same, but different in guinea pigs, is evidence that there
>> was a common
>> ancestor to apes and humans, that was not a common ancestor
>> to other
>> primates and guinea pigs, as well as all the other mammals,
>> birds etc.
>>
>> In fact vitamin C metabolism is only one example of many
>> such pseudogenes.
>> They can be mapped out in a phylogenetic pattern, and the
>> more closely
>> related species share the same number of pseudogenes, as
>> well as restriction
>> enzyme sites, chromosomal banding patterns, etc.
>>
>> If all species were created individually why would all of
>> these copies of
>> defective genes be recreated exactly as the other defective
>> genes are
>> created? To say that God chose to do it this way, is the
>> same as saying God
>> created the universe to appear old.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <james000777@bellsouth.net>
>> To: "gordon brown"
>> <Gordon.Brown@Colorado.EDU>; <asa@calvin.edu>
>> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:58 PM
>> Subject: RE: [asa] Advice for conversing with YECs (Cheek
>> turning)
>>
>>
>> >I had the same answer when we discussed this at RTB (I
>> am a volunteer
>> >apologist there). No enzyme to create vitamin C means a
>> healthier diet is
>> >needed. I still haven't seen a good reply, except
>> that because the gene
>> >doesn't work it must be "broken".
>> > James Patterson
>> >
>> > -------------- Original message from gordon brown
>> > <Gordon.Brown@Colorado.EDU>: --------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 27 Oct 2008, Dehler, Bernie wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I think the best evidence for evolution, that man
>> came from an apelike
>> > creature and was not abruptly made by fiat, is
>> pseudogenes. The book by
>> > Hugh
>> > Ross in "Who was Adam" has a good section on
>> details on this (Ross is old
>> > earth
>> > and rejects evolution, but admits they have no
>> response to the pseudogene
>> > argument). An example (in the book by Ross) is the
>> pseudogene for an
>> > enzyme to
>> > create vitamin c (asorbic acid). Lower life forms
>> have it, so they make
>> > their
>> > own vitamin c. Apes and humans have a corrupted
>> version, so we can't make
>> > it
>> > and need to get vitamin c from our diet. Why would
>> the fall curse humans
>> > and
>> >
>> >> apes (by messing up this gene) but not other
>> animals?
>> >
>> >> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >> My remark here is not directed for or against your
>> main point. Rather it
>> >
>> >> is prompted by your last claim above. Why should
>> inability to produce our
>> >
>> >> own vitamin C be considered a curse? I like to
>> drink orange juice.
>> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >> Gordon Brown (ASA member)
>> >
>> >>
>> >
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>>
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>
>
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Received on Mon Oct 27 18:56:56 2008