RE: [asa] Re: Considerable agreement with regards to christians across the spectrum?

"It's telling that you challenge me to be in the company of YECs - frankly, I've been in their company, and managed to have very respectful discussions. Not to mention being able to find quite a lot in common between our beliefs - while questions of Genesis take up a lot of time and interest nowadays, it's still such a small part of the overall faith. I think this much is easy to see, frankly."

I go to a megachurch that is non-denominational and am barely tolerated for accepting evolution, and almost kicked-out for believing in a metaphorical (not historical/actual) Adam. I'm tolerated as a member of the church, but I'm not allowed to teach my views, but I can express my opinions carefully in Sunday School (always raising eye-brows).

...Bernie

________________________________
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Schwarzwald
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 7:05 PM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: [asa] Re: Considerable agreement with regards to christians across the spectrum?

Ed,

Assuming you meant this for me: Again, I'm well aware of the schism and other conflicts - and also aware that many of those conflicts involved issues that had little to do with specific theological issues. Never underestimate the ability of secular interests to provoke quite a lot of discord. Further, while you continue to talk about 'splits' with the (false) implication that the differences between sects must be dire and wide-spread, I can continue to point out that with rare exception (the Mormons come to mind as a debatable area in particular) they're all still regarded as Christians - and all still have a tremendous amount in common.

It's telling that you challenge me to be in the company of YECs - frankly, I've been in their company, and managed to have very respectful discussions. Not to mention being able to find quite a lot in common between our beliefs - while questions of Genesis take up a lot of time and interest nowadays, it's still such a small part of the overall faith. I think this much is easy to see, frankly.

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 9:48 PM, Edward T. Babinski <leonardo3@msn.com<mailto:leonardo3@msn.com>> wrote:
Dave,

The Apostle's Creed did nothing to prevent the Great Schism b/w Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, whole halves of the Christianized Roman Empire excommunicating each other. To hell with each other. It did nothing to prevent Catholics and Protestants from rioting and killing each other during the fourth century Arian-Athanasian riots, nor during the Reformations many wars, nor did it keep Protestants cursing, rioting and killing each other, Lutherans vs. Calvinists in various towns where princes enforced rival Protestant beliefs. Neither did the Apostle's Creed prevent Catholics and Protestants from both persecuting and torturing any other rival groups who accepted that Creed but who were members of smaller sects that lacked the backing of a prince and for whom it was not permitted to evangelize in towns that already were alligned with major Protestant bodies.

The Apostle's Creed to this day does not prevent churches from continuing to split, not once, but time and time again and the process continues, like the division of one species into two over time. Maybe that's because reciting "We BELIEVE in One God, etc." isn't enough, you have to be convinced that you have the truth, found the true way to salvation, including particular books and rituals and even subsidiary beliefs, all of which seemingly will guarrantee YOUR church's authority and it's ability to ensure your eternal salvation, while the rest are "less satisfactory" (that's putting it mildly and liberally of course, the result of a liberal recognition that was hard won after centuries of people's fears of hell -- hell for them, their country or their neighbor -- getting the better of them).

Also, early first century interpretations of the Apostle's Creed differ from some modern interpretations like that of moderate-to-liberal Catholic, Gary Wills, who interprets it a little bit differently than first-century people did, or like Crossan and Kung on the Catholic side, or Barth and Tillich on the Protestant side understand "The Apostle's Creed."

And how many churches repeat "The Apostle's Creed" at services each week? Mostly mainstream churches, I suppose. For others it's merely implied and they take pride in their differences from other churches, and their own litany of truth.

Heck just go into a church of young-earth creationists and see how fast they call you a heretic for merely mentioning you agree with Darwin about a lot of things.

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Received on Wed Oct 22 03:49:05 2008