Re: [asa] Pi in Bible's face

Thanks for the measurement fun, Murray. Your diet may be a factor.  Do you eat many vegemite sandwiches?  Nevertheless, 3.12 should be good enough for government work. :)  Coope   ----- Original Message ---- From: Murray Hogg <muzhogg@netspace.net.au> To: ASA <asa@calvin.edu> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 6:37:38 PM Subject: Re: [asa] Pi in Bible's face Hi George, Oh, says he - I always thought the zero was significant because of the potential difference between 30 and 31 (say). Is this not so? Anyhoo, having goofed off a little... Measurement of arm from elbow to finger-tip, c = . . . . . . . . (wait for it) . . . . . . . . . . . ONE CUBIT (ROTFL!) Being much more serious c = 500 mm h = 95 mm my PI = 3 / (1 - (h/5c) ) = 3 / (1 - (95/2500) ) = 3 / 1 - 0.038 = 3 / 0.962 = 3.1185 Do we have some sort of chart we can look up to work out what this means - I have suggested a few entries below; Your PI; <0 - your ruler has inches AND centimeters - how nice! 0-1 - Please Google "forearm" to make sure you are using your correct bodily parts 3 - Biblical fundamentalist 3.1185 - You should be so perfect! 3.14 - Liar 3.14159265 - Really BAD liar 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679    8214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196    4428810975665933446128475648233786783165271201909145648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273    724587006606315588174881520920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548820466521384146951941511609...(etc) - Anatomically perfect but at best obsessive compulsive - possibly bordering on the mentally deranged. I'm guessing, by the way, that there are certain parts of the anatomy which are always in certain proportions - and by tweaking the formula one can get pretty close to PI on a frequent basis? Blessings, Murray George Cooper wrote: > Hi Murray, > > First, on David's observation: it strikes me as valuable to think in > terms of significant figures and/or likely precision of measurement and > applaud your observation on this point BUT we should be applying these > concepts to the measurements given (diameter=10 cubits; circumference=30 > cubits) rather than the implied value of Pi. Clearly these measurements > are to two significant figures. > > Actually, the numbers 10 and 30 have a significant figure of one sense > zeros are not considered “significant” by definition. > > I like your thinking, though I still like the beauty of the formulation. > > If you, or anyone, finds the time to goof-off with this a little, I > would be curious to learn the following measurements of your arm.  [I > happened to choose my right arm.] > > Place your forearm vertically on a table and measure from the table top > (elbow) to the tip of your middle finger (also vertical). [Cubit value, c.] > > Place your hand flat on the table and measure across your hand about an > inch behind the knuckles, as well as, across the knuckles. [Hand values, h.] > > It would be interesting how close we might come to a pi value.  [Your pi > = 3/(1-(h/5c)) ] > > “Coope” > > I note, furthermore, that the Old Testament only ever gives measurements > to the nearest half-cubit and only then when the measurements are small > - the largest measurement with a half-cubit accuracy is two and a > half-cubits. > > SO it strikes me that the precision being used is +/- half a cubit. > > We can say, then, that the diameter should be taken as 10 +/- half a > cubit (i.e. 10.6 cubits would be taken as 11 cubits) and circumference > as 30 +/- half a cubit. > > So, calculating maximum and minimum possible values of Pi; > > Maximum value = largest possible circumference / smallest possible diameter > >  = 30.5 / 9.5 > >  = 3.21 > > Minimum value = smallest possible circumference / largest possible diameter > >  = 29.5 / 10.5 > >  = 2.81 > > So, by and large following David's lead we find that the nearest we can > calculate PI from the OT data is to state a range of 2.81 to 3.21 > > Even if one wanted to round these to two significant figures, the actual > value of PI would still be within range. > > Blessings, > > Murray > > George Cooper wrote: > >>  David said: Pi is 3-to one significant digit, which is all the text gives. > >> > >>  Yes, a fair point given a general audience with the author giving only > >>  approximate dimensions for either the diameter or circumference or both. > >> > >>  I would have preferred, however, to read in scripture of an "about 3 to > >>  1" statement considering all the other subsequent details of these > >>  magnificent bowls.  On the other hand, the placement of the 600 knops > >>  would benefit greatly if the craftsmen could take advantage of this > >>  rather unique measurement circumstance of reducing the diameter of 10 > >>  cubits by the two hand widths, yielding a ~ 3.14 ratio (assuming the > >>  circumference under the brim were actually 30 cubits).  This makes me > >>  suspect that the 3 to 1 statement had a nifty meaning, especially for > >>  the craftsmen. > >> > >>  Whether a rough value or a unique circumstance for measurements, either > >>  gives reason for none to claim the Bible uses an "exact value of 3 for > >>  pi".  I've heard this claim used by those in science who should know or > >>  suspect better.  [I’ll be curious if they publish my brief and friendly > >>  response in the next/ Astronomy/ issue.] > >> > >>  "Coope" > >> > >> > >>  -----Original Message----- > >>  From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On > >>  Behalf Of David Campbell > >>  Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 2:58 PM > >>  To: ASA > >>  Subject: Re: [asa] Pi in Bible's face > >> > >>  Pi is 3-to one significant digit, which is all the text gives. > >> > >> > >>  -- > >> > >>  Dr. David Campbell > >> > >>  425 Scientific Collections > >> > >>  University of Alabama > >> > >>  "I think of my happy condition, surrounded by acres of clams" > >> > >>  To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with > >> > >>  "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message. > >> > > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with > > "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.

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Received on Sat Oct 11 16:17:26 2008