Re: [asa] What Does ID Add?

I do not wish to misrepresent you, but sometimes I get mixed messages from you. So, what you're saying then is that you are not a TE. Do I properly understand you, George? You do not promote TE views, is that right?
   
  If you are not a TE, then I will stand corrected and offer you an apology. If you are neither an EC nor a TE, then I will stand corrected. And if you are none of the above, then I was also wrong. If you are a TE, however, then my statement is not misrepresenting you and perhaps you should apologize to me.
   
  Second, I did not call you a 'deist.' The notion of 'divine hidden-ness' is shorthand for what I believe you have repeatedly claimed, that G-D's actions are hidden. You use the notion of kenosis, 'emptying' to explain your views.
   
  Third, you said TE "is not going to go away." Do you not stand by what you wrote anymore or was it a kind of exaggeration using abolute language? I guess the notion that "established terminology, ideal or not, is hard to change" is a kind of stepping back from your statement, something less definite, less certain. This possibility of TE being eventually overwritten I find rather interesting, and yet you dismiss it as "not a high priority". I hope you may someday come to respect how my views differ from yours (noting the considerable differences between physics/theology and sociology/philosophy), rather than simply calling them 'wrong'.
   
  Respect, yes George. I respect authorities and elders. But if you can't send respectful messages off-list instead of mockery, then please don't send anything at all!
   
  Here hopefully we can agree.
   
  With faithful wishes,
  Gregory
   
   
  George Murphy <gmurphy@raex.com> wrote:
          Gregory -
   
  I respectfully request that you stop misrepresenting my views on this list, as in the 2 examples below. I do not, & have never said that I do, "prefer" the term TE to EC. (I have pointed out that both terms have their limits, & have observed that established terminology, ideal or not, is hard to change.) & secondly, my view of divine action is not remotely "deist." I have repeatedly said that God is involved in everything that happens in the world.
   
  If you can't say anything accurate about my views then please don't say anything at all.
   
  Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
    ----- Original Message -----
  From: Gregory Arago
  To: Steve Martin ; John Walley
  Cc: Peter Loose ; David Opderbeck ; AmericanScientificAffiliation
  Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 1:19 PM
  Subject: Re: [asa] What Does ID Add?
  

  .........................
  Thus, I propose that EC be added to this thread’s scope (i.e. not just OEC/ID and TE) in order to give a more accurate picture of those who dialogue at ASA, i.e. who commonly prefer EC (this includes Keith Miller and David Campbell among others) to TE (this includes George Murphy’s ‘you’re not going to get rid of TE’ rhetoric).
  .........................
   
  My two-bits for concepts/ideas that I think should be added in answer to David O.’s OP question are those of ‘intervention’ (vs., e.g. George’s ‘divine hidden-ness’ and non-interventionists/deists) and ‘pattern recognition.’

       
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Received on Sun Sep 9 16:01:22 2007