Re: [asa] Greg Boyd's Theodicy of Natural Evil

There are all kinds of interesting ideas or proposals, but at some level you need to have scripture to back it up on some level at least, and Boyd is going to have a lot of work to do regarding passages regarding God's sovereignty.

David said: "...the serpent in the Garden does seem to suggest that there is rebellion in the creation before the human fall."

I want to be clear about what you mean here. If you mean that this is evidence that Satan has fallen (as he was part of creation) then I would agree with you that this passage indicates that yes part of creation has fallen. But if you mean that all of creation has been tainted, (because he takes the form of a snake?) then I would disagree with that interpretation.

David said: "...the Christus Victor aspect of the atonement tied with the final eschatological defeat of evil including final defeat of the spiritual forces that oppose God's kingdom does seem to suggest that the "putting to rights" or "completion" inherent in the eschaton involves more than just human sin. "

Of course this means that you are putting your eschatology before your theology of redemption. If one doesnt think that the scriptures require a destruction and recreation of all of Creation, then there is no need to see evil in all of creation, and therefore no need for redemption.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: David Opderbeck
  To: Robert Schneider
  Cc: D. F. Siemens, Jr. ; steven.dale.martin@gmail.com ; drsyme@cablespeed.com ; asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 11:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [asa] Greg Boyd's Theodicy of Natural Evil

  I tend to agree with Bob that Boyd's particular rendition of this seems almost manichean or gnostic -- more like the "good vs. evil" you find in a Spiderman comic, where evil actually has a chance of winning, than the Biblical picture. But, like Michael, I do find aspects of it attractive. I'd agree that there isn't enough in the Bible from which any kind of detail can be proposed, but the serpent in the Garden does seem to suggest that there is rebellion in the creation before the human fall; and the Christus Victor aspect of the atonement tied with the final eschatological defeat of evil including final defeat of the spiritual forces that oppose God's kingdom does seem to suggest that the "putting to rights" or "completion" inherent in the eschaton involves more than just human sin. At least, I like the idea of being able to say there might be more to this whole picture than the selective nature of the scriptures fully reveals.

  On 7/17/07, Robert Schneider <schneider98@gmail.com> wrote:
    I also think that this view skirts the edge of gnosticism. If Satan is the ultimate author of natural evil, could not Valentinian say, "I could live with that."

    Bob

    On 7/17/07, D. F. Siemens, Jr. <dfsiemensjr@juno.com > wrote:
      My late mother got gap theory at Biola when Dr. Torrey was there. Her take was that evolution took place in however many years were necessary before the gap. I'm guessing that the recreation reproduced the state the earth had come to just before the gap. Now, if they just had physical evidence for a gap.
      Dave (ASA)

      On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:39:25 -0400 "Steve Martin" <steven.dale.martin@gmail.com> writes:

        Makes for a simple theodicy much like YEC. (You do need to perform some amazing & dubious hermeneutical slight of hand to pull it off though). I've always thought that someone could try and reconcile the "Gap Theory" and evolution - but I never met anyone who actually articulated it.

        thanks,

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Wed Jul 18 06:40:55 2007