Re: [asa] Empiricism, Faith and Science

Gordon,

You write, "You can't extrapolate your conclusion about Genesis 1:1 to all
the rest of
Scripture unless you know what constitutes Scripture."

But I thought I had already made my position clear when I wrote, "With such
a coincidence of significant biblical and extra-biblical elements occurring
in the opening 7 Hebrew words one might well ask whether any further proof
of the divine inspiration of the J-C Scriptures is needed." It is surely
significant that these phenomena are found at the very threshold of what the
Apostle Paul claims to be the _Inspired Word of God_ - wouldn't you agree?
Significant too that, as Iain has previously remarked, "...they are not
everyone's cup of tea." Indeed, I would go further and suggest that they
represent a _bitter cup_ for virtually all involved in this debate, whether
TE, OEC, YEC, ID or materialist. Why this universal revulsion to perfectly
valid data, Gordon? Is it a matter of _superstition_? After all, a
standard scientific approach has been applied in their gathering and
cataloguing. It should follow, therefore, that they are (1) accepted as
realities and, (2) accomodated in all future debate concerning origins. The
fact that this isn't happening is perhaps as strong a reason as any for
believing my thesis to be true.

In seeking an explanation for this strange behaviour among the community of
scientists I am led to consider a _supernatural_ cause. Possibly you have a
different view, Gordon.

Vernon
www.otherbiblecode.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "gordon brown" <gbrown@euclid.colorado.edu>
To: "Vernon Jenkins" <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net>
Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [asa] Empiricism, Faith and Science

> Vernon,
>
> You can't extrapolate your conclusion about Genesis 1:1 to all the rest of
> Scripture unless you know what constitutes Scripture. Does it apply to a
> verse in Ezekiel? Does it apply to a verse in I Maccabees? We have to use
> other criteria to determine what is Scripture and what isn't. If you use
> numerical patterns to argue for the inspiration of Genesis 1:1, then what
> do you use to argue similarly for other verses unless you convince the
> skeptic that what you and I accept as the canon is correct?
>
> Gordon Brown
> Department of Mathematics
> University of Colorado
> Boulder, CO 80309-0395
>
>
> On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, Vernon Jenkins wrote:
>
>> Gordon,
>>
>> You ask, "How can the numerical features observed in Genesis 1:1 tell us
>> anything at
>> all about any other passages in Hebrew or Greek as you seem to imply?"
>>
>> The numero-geometrical features strongly displayed in the Bible's first
>> verse are the _unique_ plane trifigurate number, 37 (also a factor of
>> both Name and Title of the Creator, and of 666), and the _coordinated
>> geometries_ involving symbolically-potent _equilateral triangles_ - in
>> particular, 666 - the epitome of triangularity; this occurring in
>> _triplicate_ inset in a triangular outline of 6x6x6. With such a
>> coincidence of significant biblical and extra-biblical elements occurring
>> in the opening 7 Hebrew words one might well ask whether any further
>> proof of the divine inspiration of the J-C Scriptures is needed.
>>
>> I believe we can come to one or other of two reasonable conclusions with
>> regard to these phenomena. It might well be that the Lord has thought fit
>> to underscore just _some_ important verses/names in this manner. On the
>> other hand, possibly the whole of the numerical ground makes divine
>> sense - but we, in our present state of understanding, are only able to
>> comprehend certain of the simpler mathematical structures; yet, enough to
>> draw the appropriate conclusons.
>>
>> Gordon, I trust we can agree that Genesis 1:1 is neither 'miracle of
>> chance' nor 'masterpiece of human endeavour', but a clear demonstration
>> of non-biological intelligent design!
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Vernon
>> www.otherbiblecode.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "gordon brown" <gbrown@euclid.colorado.edu>
>> To: "Vernon Jenkins" <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net>
>> Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 12:01 AM
>> Subject: Re: [asa] Empiricism, Faith and Science
>>
>>
>> >
>> > On Mon, 18 Sep 2006, Vernon Jenkins wrote:
>> >
>> >> I observe that forum members are apt to say this kind of thing from
>> >> time to time - but the fact is that the claim is manifestly untrue!
>> >> Better than any 'controlled experiment' - as David suggests - is an
>> >> examination of the historical records: in this case, the Hebrew and
>> >> Greek Scriptures which form the basis of all Bible translations. A
>> >> potentially significant feature of these writings is that they may
>> >> also be fairly read as _sets of numbers_; in other words, stripped of
>> >> their literal/interpreted meaning they rest, ultimately, on a solid
>> >> numerical _ground_. And while it may be supposed that such a ground
>> >> must, in itself, be devoid of all meaning, a cursory examination of
>> >> the 7 Hebrew words of the Bible's opening verse suffices to prove
>> >> otherwise - its representative numbers and their combinations being
>> >> observed to make a great deal of numero-geometrical sense! Indeed,
>> >> such is the richness of these 'pyrotechnics' that Genesis 1:1 -
>> >> already a powerful and strategicall!
> y-p!
>> > laced assertion, and most widely read sentence of all time - must be
>> > rated _the most remarkable combination of words ever written_! [Details
>> > provided here: http://homepage.virgin.net/tgvernon.jenkins/Wonders.htm]
>> >
>> > Vernon,
>> >
>> > How can the numerical features observed in Genesis 1:1 tell us anything
>> > at
>> > all about any other passages in Hebrew or Greek as you seem to imply?
>> >
>> > Gordon Brown
>> > Department of Mathematics
>> > University of Colorado
>> > Boulder, CO 80309-0395
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> >
>
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Received on Sat Sep 23 17:05:27 2006