Re: [asa] grand canyon layers: was The apostle warns of evolution

Sorry, Michael, I did not see fossil conifer forests as I got toward the
bottom.. I've also seen Mt. St. Helen up close, though I didn't climb it. No
mini-canyons there, sorry Austin (Nevins). But, of course, Michael, America
enjoys God's special providence as the Promised Land, New Jerusalem, "City
Upon a Hill" (Reagan) et alia. Being the biggest in everything, it stands to
reason that God would give us the biggest canyon in anticipation of our
arrival. I don't know if he informed the native population in advance. They
seemed to be uncomprehending of the white strangers and their big canoes..

Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Roberts" <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>
To: "Robert Schneider" <rjschn39@bellsouth.net>; "Brent Foster"
<bdffoster@charter.net>; <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [asa] grand canyon layers: was The apostle warns of evolution

> Did you see the fossil conifer forests in the Precambrian? I have to admit
> that I failed to see them, or the mudflows which brought them from afar.
>
> As for there not being Grand Canyons in other parts of the world could not
> this be due to the special place America was to have in the providence of
> God?
>
> I also find the comparisons of the mini-canyons on Mt st Helens
> promulgated by Steve Austin aka Stuart Nevins specious in the extreme.
>
> Michael
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Schneider" <rjschn39@bellsouth.net>
> To: "Brent Foster" <bdffoster@charter.net>; <asa@calvin.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [asa] grand canyon layers: was The apostle warns of evolution
>
>
>> I'm sure that I am one of many of you who have hiked into the Grand
>> Canyon. I went down the Kaibab Trail from the South Rim and hiked back up
>> on the Bright Angel Trail. Standing at the oasis at Indian Garden and
>> looking up at what appeared then to be a sheer wall that five miles of
>> switchbacks made hikeable, I could never imagine that cut made by rapid
>> erosion.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brent Foster" <bdffoster@charter.net>
>> To: <asa@calvin.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 11:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: [asa] grand canyon layers: was The apostle warns of
>> evolution
>>
>>
>>> This is true, and I think just as ridiculous as the rapid deposition is
>>> the rapid erosion that YECs propose for the Grand Canyon. To make rapid
>>> erosion even conceivable YECs suggest that it occurred in soft sediment,
>>> which it certainly would be if freshly deposited. But the striking thing
>>> about Grand Canyon is its stair-stepping topography with cliffs hundreds
>>> of feet high in the resistant sandstones and gentle slopes on the easily
>>> eroded shales. But that is the exact OPPOSITE of what would occur in
>>> soft sediment. Any construction worker knows you can't dig a 3 foot
>>> trench in wet sand and have it stand up for 5 minutes, much less hold up
>>> a 200 foot face for 5000 years. Sand has no cohesion. Moist clay, on the
>>> other hand has lots of cohesion and will support a vertical face of
>>> modest hight for a short time.
>>>
>>> Brent
>>>
>>>
>>> ---- Charles Carrigan <CCarriga@olivet.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> =============
>>> To this geologist it is mind-boggling how creationists can state "it is
>>> obvious these layers were laid down catastrophically, not slowly. But
>>> evolutionists deliberately choose to ignore the obvious..."
>>>
>>> It is in fact the creationist geologists who completely ignore the
>>> obvious evidence of the rock layers in the Grand Canyon. Watching S.
>>> Austin, K. Wise, et al. in their old video on the subject is just
>>> painful. They focus on a few completely unimportant details and ignore
>>> the obvious evidence in front of them - most ironic part is their
>>> comments about the Hermit Shale (or was it the Bright Angel Shale?).
>>> How they stand there and look at 50+ meters of shale and at the same
>>> time talk about rapid deposition with a straight face is just
>>> unfathomable.
>>>
>>> Your comments Bill about the clear differentiation of layers is
>>> completely appropriate.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Charles
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________
>>> Charles W. Carrigan, Ph.D.
>>> Assistant Professor of Geology
>>> Olivet Nazarene Univ., Dept. of Physical Sciences
>>> One University Ave.
>>> Bourbonnais, IL 60914
>>> PH: (815) 939-5346
>>> FX: (815) 939-5071
>>> ccarriga@olivet.edu
>>> http://geology.olivet.edu/
>>>
>>> "To a naturalist nothing is indifferent;
>>> the humble moss that creeps upon the stone
>>> is equally interesting as the lofty pine which so beautifully adorns the
>>> valley or the mountain:
>>> but to a naturalist who is reading in the face of the rocks the annals
>>> of a former world,
>>> the mossy covering which obstructs his view,
>>> and renders indistinguishable the different species of stone,
>>> is no less than a serious subject of regret."
>>> - James Hutton
>>> _______________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Bill Hamilton <williamehamiltonjr@yahoo.com> 9/4/2006 6:57:01 AM >>>
>>>
>>> AIG writes
>>>> An excellent example to illustrate this can be found when you
>>>> visit
>>>> the Grand Canyon. The park rangers will tell you that the layers
>>>> of
>>>> rock in the Canyon are the result of slow processes that have
>>>> been
>>>> going on for millions of years.
>>>>
>>>> But the evidence from the rock layers fits with what the Bible
>>>> tells
>>>> us concerning the judgment of the Flood. It is obvious these
>>>> layers
>>>> were laid down catastrophically, not slowly. But evolutionists
>>>> deliberately choose to ignore the obvious*why? They have been
>>>> blinded
>>>> by the god of this world and don't want to submit to the God of
>>>> the
>>>> Bible!
>>>>
>>> To my admittedly untrained eye, the rock layers in the Grand Canyon look
>>> as
>>> though they had been deposited over great periods of time. If they had
>>> been
>>> deposited in the flood, I don't believe we would see the clear
>>> differentiation
>>> of successive layers that we see. How the creationists draw this
>>> conclusion is
>>> beyond me.
>>>
>>> Bill Hamilton
>>> William E. Hamilton, Jr., Ph.D.
>>> 248.652.4148 (home) 248.821.8156 (mobile)
>>> "...If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom 8:31
>>>
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>>
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Received on Wed Sep 13 17:38:34 2006