RE: The wrong horse in evolution education

Yes, there were prophesies concerning the Messiah and there was a covenant
made between God and Abram [Gen 15]. However, as Peter Ruest pointed out,
there is Scriptural evidence that hints at grace beyond Abram's descendents.
I'm still not sure about the pre-Adamites, though.

As to Don's comment, "Christ redeems those that want redemption," would it
make sense that Christ would redeem those who didn't know that there was
such a things as redemption, that didn't know any better?

Chuck

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Perrett [mailto:donperrett@interstrenuus.com] On Behalf Of Donald
Perrett (E-mail)
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 11:16 AM
To: 'Tjalle T Vandergraaf'
Cc: ASA Discussions (E-mail)
Subject: RE: The wrong horse in evolution education

Were there not prophesies of the coming of the messiah? Was the salvation
to be offered from God not known by the OT Hebrews? Of course they knew.
If you know that a saviour is coming then even after death you will await
it. If you do not know or do not believe then certainly you will die,
physically and Spiritually. Good works alone cannot get you home according
to scripture. Christ redeems those that want redemption. So those that do
not want it, nor know about it will not get it.

Don P

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
Behalf Of Tjalle T Vandergraaf
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 20:38
To: 'Peter Ruest'; 'Dick Fischer'; 'Phil Metzger'; 'Jack Syme'; 'Janice
Matchett'
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: The wrong horse in evolution education

Peter Ruest's comment raises all sort so red flags with me. He wrote, in
part,

<snip>
"A question of time, of before and after, of inheritance, does not enter.
Abraham (John 8:56) was saved through Christ, although he lived 2 millennia
earlier, and all OT saints were saved through Christ. So why can't
pre-Adamites be responsible before God, and therefore sin, after the pattern
of Adam (modified by their amount of knowledge of God's law), and die - and
some be saved through Christ? Christ is the pattern of the new humanity
(both before and after his time on earth), and Adam is the pattern of the
old humanity (both before and after his time).

"At least for the time being, I see this as the most probable solution of
the
time problem mentioned. It implies the rejection of the dogma of the
inheritance of an original sin. And I believe this dogma is not biblical,
anyway. But of course, I retain the teaching that all humans are sinful,
lost, and in need of a Savior."

I don't have a problem with Christ's sacrifice being retroactive (in time)
so that it applies to Adam, Noah, David, etc., but would this apply to those
who were not "OT saints"? Peter uses the qualifying statement "and some
[could be] be saved through Christ." What would then determine who would be
included in the "some"? It cannot have been the knowledge of Christ because
He came later. If not knowledge, could it be anything other than "good
works"?

Am I missing something here?

Chuck
Received on Sun Apr 16 17:33:06 2006