Re: The wrong horse in evolution education

Tjalle T Vandergraaf wrote:

> Peter Ruest's comment raises all sort so red flags with me. He wrote, in
> part,
>
> <snip>
> "A question of time, of before and after, of inheritance, does not enter.
> Abraham (John 8:56) was saved through Christ, although he lived 2 millennia
> earlier, and all OT saints were saved through Christ. So why can't
> pre-Adamites be responsible before God, and therefore sin, after the pattern
> of Adam (modified by their amount of knowledge of God's law), and die - and
> some be saved through Christ? Christ is the pattern of the new humanity
> (both before and after his time on earth), and Adam is the pattern of the
> old humanity (both before and after his time).
>
> "At least for the time being, I see this as the most probable solution of
> the
> time problem mentioned. It implies the rejection of the dogma of the
> inheritance of an original sin. And I believe this dogma is not biblical,
> anyway. But of course, I retain the teaching that all humans are sinful,
> lost, and in need of a Savior."
>
> I don't have a problem with Christ's sacrifice being retroactive (in time)
> so that it applies to Adam, Noah, David, etc., but would this apply to those
> who were not "OT saints"? Peter uses the qualifying statement "and some
> [could be] be saved through Christ." What would then determine who would be
> included in the "some"? It cannot have been the knowledge of Christ because
> He came later. If not knowledge, could it be anything other than "good
> works"?
>
> Am I missing something here?
>
> Chuck

Hi Chuck

Indeed I meant neither knowledge of Christ, in the sense we who have heard the
gospel can know of him, nor "good works" of the kind the Reformers rejected.

I referred to Abraham being saved through Christ. In John 8:56, Jesus says,
"Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad."
And then, v.58, Jesus says: "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I
am." You agree with me that "Christ's sacrifice [is] retroactive (in time) so
that it applies to Adam, Noah, David, etc." But of course, Abraham was neither
saved by "knowledge of Christ because He came later" nor by "good works", but by
faith in Christ in the sense that he believed in the promise of God that "God
will provide for himself the lamb for a burnt offering" (Gen. 22:8). And the
writer to the Hebrews comments (Heb. 11:13): "These all died in faith, not
having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from
afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth."

Now all this refers to the OT saints. But Paul hints at how some of those we
would hardly call OT saints might still be such: "For when Gentiles, who do not
have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves,
even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is
written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their
conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to
my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus" (Rom. 2:14-16). Would
such gentiles, who don't have any "knowledge of Christ", be saved by "good
works"? Paul was hardly the one to have proposed such a thing! No, the "secrets"
of their "hearts", with respect to how they dealt with what their "conscience"
told them, would be "judged" by God, as Paul says in Rom.2:14ff. Faith in Chist
is the only way to be saved, but trust in God's messianic promise qualifies as
faith in Christ, and supplication in one's heart to the "God Most High" for pity
might also qualify as faith in God's means of justification (i.e. Christ) in the
sight of the "Lord, who know the hearts of all" (Acts 1:24).

After his return from the victory over Chedorlaomer and the other kings, Abraham
was blessed by Melchizedek, the "priest of God Most High", and gave him the
tenth of everything. But he refused to receive anything from the king of Sodom
(Gen. 14:17-24). Did he recognize Melchizedek as an "OT saint" - in contrast to
the king of Sodom? In his intercession for Sodom, Abraham pleaded with God, "Far
be it from you to do such a thing, to put the righteous to death with the
wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from you! Shall
not the Judge of all the earth do what is just?" Evidently Abraham thought it
was feasible that there were righteous people among the gentiles, even in Sodom,
and God didn't deny this, but said, "If I find at Sodom fifty righteous in the
city, I will spare the whole place for their sake" (Gen. 18:25-26).

Not all gentiles would have exercised the faith of Abraham or other OT saints,
but some may have done so. But then, this may have happened among pre-Adamites,
as well.

In accordance with this idea, we sometimes read of Muslims coming to faith in
Jesus by dreams, without having heard the gospel, or of similar stories from
missionary situations. Christ is the only way we must be saved, but God
sometimes has some wondrous ways of drawing people to him.

The Lord has risen indeed!

Peter

-- 
Dr. Peter Ruest, CH-3148 Lanzenhaeusern, Switzerland
<pruest@dplanet.ch> - Biochemistry - Creation and evolution
"..the work which God created to evolve it" (Genesis 2:3)