Re: Are there things that don't evolve?

Sure, the 2d law poses some problems that have to be dealt with in
connection with evolution. & the question of the origin of the laws of
physics is appropriate, & I think Christians can give a good answer starting
from Jn.1:1-14 & Col.1:15-20. But most anti-evolutionists are content with
the superficial & wrong claim that the 2d law rules out any system becoming
more orderly. There's little point in nuances until that myth is
demolished.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Hamilton" <williamehamiltonjr@yahoo.com>
To: "George Murphy" <gmurphy@raex.com>; "ASA list" <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 8:04 AM
Subject: RE: Are there things that don't evolve?

>I believe there is an essential element that gets left out of answers of
>this
> kind (that entropy can decrease in an open system) That element is that
> there
> must be a system in place that can utilize energy in a systematic way.
> Increase
> the heat input to a container of water and the molecules move faster --
> not
> very interesting. But the laws of physics and chemistry provide a system
> that
> can -- when the right elements are present -- utilize energy input to
> produce
> increased organization. So the theist's question for the naturalist who
> answers
> that entropy can decrease in an open system ought to be, "Yes, interaction
> of
> energy with the laws of physics and chemistry can bring about increased
> organization, but where did the laws of physics and chemistry come from?"
>
> --- George Murphy <gmurphy@raex.com> wrote:
>
>> Debbie et al -
>>
>> I don't know if this will knock anyone's sock's off but Dick's right.
>> "The
>> law of increasing disorder (entropy)" holds for closed systems. The
>> disorder
>> (entropy) in an open system - i.e., one that energy & mass can flow into
>> &
>> out of - can decrease & that system can become more orderly. This is at
>> the
>> expense of a greater disorder in the system's environment. Thus you can
>> unshuffle a deck of cards, a fertilized ovum can develop into a baby, &
>> evolution can happen. Of course this doesn't prove that evolution does
>> happen but the 2d law of thermodynamics isn't against it.
>>
>> Shalom
>> George
>> http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Dick Fischer
>> To: ASA
>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 10:18 PM
>> Subject: RE: Are there things that don't evolve?
>>
>>
>> Hi Debbie, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Evolution bothers me theoretically because it defies the law of
>> entropy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ah, you've been reading creationist literature. Entropy or disorder is
>> the
>> end result of a closed system. The universe, for example, is a closed
>> system
>> and eventually will run down. Our solar system, however, is an open
>> system.
>> The sun energizes the earth, and until the sun burns out daffodils will
>> bloom
>> in the springtime and entropy will be held at bay. Stick around and
>> George
>> Murphy will give a monosyllabic scientific explanation that will knock
>> your
>> socks off.
>>
>>
>>
>> See, you're on the right list.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dick Fischer
>>
>> ~Dick Fischer~ Genesis Proclaimed Association
>>
>> Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
>>
>> www.genesisproclaimed.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
>> Behalf Of Debbie Mann
>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:53 PM
>> To: Asa
>> Subject: RE: [SPAM]RE: Are there things that don't evolve?
>>
>>
>>
>> Response to Dick:
>>
>>
>>
>> <"Isn't it just inaccurate to use the term "evolution" to mean
>> "change"?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <It's more accurate to call evolution "descent with modification" if
>> you
>>
>> like a nice short definition.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 'Descent'? Doesn't evolve' indicate 'ascent'? Evolution bothers me
>>
>> theoretically because it defies the law of entropy. Change by
>> simplification
>>
>> wouldn't bother me - but change by complication does. I'd love it if
>> your
>>
>> definitiion was the only 'evolution' there was.
>>
>>
>>
>> Debbie Mann
>>
>> (765) 477-1776
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
>> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
>>
>> Behalf Of Dick Fischer
>>
>> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:00 PM
>>
>> To: ASA
>>
>> Subject: [SPAM]RE: Are there things that don't evolve?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Gregory, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Isn't it just inaccurate to use the term "evolution" to mean
>> "change"?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It's more accurate to call evolution "descent with modification" if
>> you
>>
>> like a nice short definition.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dick Fischer
>>
>>
>>
>> ~Dick Fischer~ Genesis Proclaimed Association
>>
>>
>>
>> Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
>>
>>
>>
>> www.genesisproclaimed.org
>>
>> Shalom
>> George
>> http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
>
>
> Bill Hamilton
> William E. Hamilton, Jr., Ph.D.
> 248.652.4148 (home) 248.303.8651 (mobile)
> "...If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom 8:31
>
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Received on Sun Apr 2 13:42:30 2006