RE: Are there things that don't evolve?

I believe there is an essential element that gets left out of answers of this
kind (that entropy can decrease in an open system) That element is that there
must be a system in place that can utilize energy in a systematic way. Increase
the heat input to a container of water and the molecules move faster -- not
very interesting. But the laws of physics and chemistry provide a system that
can -- when the right elements are present -- utilize energy input to produce
increased organization. So the theist's question for the naturalist who answers
that entropy can decrease in an open system ought to be, "Yes, interaction of
energy with the laws of physics and chemistry can bring about increased
organization, but where did the laws of physics and chemistry come from?"

--- George Murphy <gmurphy@raex.com> wrote:

> Debbie et al -
>
> I don't know if this will knock anyone's sock's off but Dick's right. "The
> law of increasing disorder (entropy)" holds for closed systems. The disorder
> (entropy) in an open system - i.e., one that energy & mass can flow into &
> out of - can decrease & that system can become more orderly. This is at the
> expense of a greater disorder in the system's environment. Thus you can
> unshuffle a deck of cards, a fertilized ovum can develop into a baby, &
> evolution can happen. Of course this doesn't prove that evolution does
> happen but the 2d law of thermodynamics isn't against it.
>
> Shalom
> George
> http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dick Fischer
> To: ASA
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 10:18 PM
> Subject: RE: Are there things that don't evolve?
>
>
> Hi Debbie, you wrote:
>
>
>
> Evolution bothers me theoretically because it defies the law of entropy.
>
>
>
> Ah, you've been reading creationist literature. Entropy or disorder is the
> end result of a closed system. The universe, for example, is a closed system
> and eventually will run down. Our solar system, however, is an open system.
> The sun energizes the earth, and until the sun burns out daffodils will bloom
> in the springtime and entropy will be held at bay. Stick around and George
> Murphy will give a monosyllabic scientific explanation that will knock your
> socks off.
>
>
>
> See, you're on the right list.
>
>
>
> Dick Fischer
>
> ~Dick Fischer~ Genesis Proclaimed Association
>
> Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
>
> www.genesisproclaimed.org
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Debbie Mann
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:53 PM
> To: Asa
> Subject: RE: [SPAM]RE: Are there things that don't evolve?
>
>
>
> Response to Dick:
>
>
>
> <"Isn't it just inaccurate to use the term "evolution" to mean "change"?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <It's more accurate to call evolution "descent with modification" if you
>
> like a nice short definition.
>
>
>
>
>
> 'Descent'? Doesn't evolve' indicate 'ascent'? Evolution bothers me
>
> theoretically because it defies the law of entropy. Change by
> simplification
>
> wouldn't bother me - but change by complication does. I'd love it if your
>
> definitiion was the only 'evolution' there was.
>
>
>
> Debbie Mann
>
> (765) 477-1776
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
>
> Behalf Of Dick Fischer
>
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:00 PM
>
> To: ASA
>
> Subject: [SPAM]RE: Are there things that don't evolve?
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Gregory, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Isn't it just inaccurate to use the term "evolution" to mean "change"?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It's more accurate to call evolution "descent with modification" if you
>
> like a nice short definition.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dick Fischer
>
>
>
> ~Dick Fischer~ Genesis Proclaimed Association
>
>
>
> Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
>
>
>
> www.genesisproclaimed.org
>
> Shalom
> George
> http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

Bill Hamilton
William E. Hamilton, Jr., Ph.D.
248.652.4148 (home) 248.303.8651 (mobile)
"...If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom 8:31

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Received on Sun Apr 2 08:05:35 2006