From: Dr. Blake Nelson (bnelson301@yahoo.com)
Date: Wed Apr 30 2003 - 16:58:28 EDT
Iain --
Hooray! Well said.
I agree with your comments. Love, humility and
openness should be our watchwords.
To put the "twit filter" statement in context, since I
was here too, if I recall correctly (which I might
not), JimE had written several at best undiplomatic,
and at worst, downright nasty posts directed at
various people who disagreed with him which IIRC
prompted lots of people to ask Terry about moderation.
I think the statement (which was indelicately
phrased) came out of the discussion of whether to have
Terry review all the e-mails before they were posted
to the list. The point of the post, as I vaguely
remember, is that there were other ways, other than
moderation to avoid such e-mails as JimE was then
sending (although JimE was not specifically mentioned
in the discussion about moderation by Terry, JimE
himself noted that Terry had bounced at least one of
his posts after moderation began and at first JimE
railed about being censored through moderating). Of
course, in that context, the Vernon reference was
still gratuitous.
I suppose that I should check the archive to see if my
memory is correct, but I don't have time at the
moment. If I have gotten any of this wrong with my
limited long-term memory capcity, my apologies to
anyone I inadvertently offend.
Regards,
Blake
--- Iain Strachan <iain.strachan.asa@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
> George wrote:
>
> > A bit of history may be helpful for those
> relatively new to the list. A
> few
> > months ago Jim Eisele, then new to the list, was
> trying to defend the
> truth of the
> > Genesis creation accounts - "truth" meaning the
> kind of thing
> fundamentalists &
> > concordists want, accurate historical &/or
> scientific accounts.
> Apparently concluding
> > that that wasn't possible, he now declares himself
> an atheist & criticizes
> the Genesis
> > accounts because they _aren't_ true in that sense.
> >
>
> Thanks in general for the comments that followed
> this paragraph, which by
> and large I think are pretty sensible. If one bases
> one's whole faith on a
> completely literal view of early Genesis, then if
> something really
> convincing challenges that (like the simple
> observation that we can see
> light from galaxies and supernovae that are millions
> of light years away),
> then that faith is liable to crumble. It nearly
> destroyed Glenn Morton's
> faith (see his website for his own personal
> testimony on this), and it seems
> to have destroyed Jim's faith. For most of my
> Christian life, I have been a
> pretty unquestioning accepter of the evolutionary
> viewpoint; however
> recently, largely as a result of working in an area
> of probabilistic
> modelling, machine learning and optimization theory,
> I have come to the
> conclusion that there are legitimate reasons to
> question whether the
> Dawkins-like view of evolution is valid. I shall
> therefore continue to look
> into the ID alternative, without basing my entire
> faith on it.
>
> However, there is one other bit of history about
> this affair (Jim's evolving
> views during his membership of the list) that does
> disturb me deeply about
> the way this list functions, and I'd like to raise
> it now for due
> consideration. I do not feel that the list function
> at all as a loving
> Christian community; those in the minority, who
> don't support the status quo
> (at least of the some of the most vocal members of
> the list), get treated
> almost as if they are dreadful enemies. Now, when I
> first decided to become
> a Christian, it was the aspect of Christian love
> that brought me to a
> decision. I attended a weekend house-party of the
> "Crusaders" organization
> (a kind of non-denominational Sunday school), when I
> was 16 (29 years ago
> now!). Previously, my faith had been based entirely
> on intellect & I
> thought I'd got it all worked out pretty well. The
> weekend brought home to
> me that something intangible and wonderful bound the
> people together that
> was more than the sum of their parts. It was the
> love of God that brought
> people together. That combined with the fact that
> the speakers repeatedly
> emphasised the importance of inviting Jesus into
> your life as your personal
> Saviour, convinced me, and I did so, in the privacy
> of my own bedroom,
> shortly after returning from the House Party.
>
> But the cut-and-thrust and point scoring that goes
> on in this list does not
> bear the least resemblance to what I experienced all
> those years ago, and if
> I'd witnessed such things on that weekend, I would
> have been put off
> Christianity for life!
>
> The very worst example of this, which frankly
> horrified and outraged me was
> an incident some months ago when someone (I won't
> name them), put up a post
> on the list suggesting that we should make e-mail
> technology work for us.
> They showed that it was relatively straightforward
> to set up an email
> "filter" that scanned incoming emails for the
> phrases "Jim Eisele", and
> "otherbiblecode.com" (Vernon's web site), so that
> such posts could be
> immediately transferred to the "trash" folder. Jim
> subsequently angrily and
> very tellingly described this as a "twit filter".
> Needless to say I thought
> the suggestion to encourage people to put all Jim's
> and Vernon's posts in
> the trash folder was highly offensive behaviour and
> I am completely
> astonished that a Christian could even contemplate
> such an act. Then to add
> insult to injury, someone else replied to this email
> with words to this
> effect "hooray, no more bible numerics or day-age
> nutters for me" (I forget
> the actual words, but it was something like that).
>
> Actually, that wasn't the lowest the list ever sunk
> to. The real low point
> was when someone actually rejoiced in the fact that
> Philip Johnson had had a
> stroke and was therefore (at the time) out of
> action. But for that comment
> the poster was throughly and rightly condemned by
> other members of the list,
> even those who considered themselves to be
> implacable opponents of Johnson.
> But the above "Twit Filter" affair was never, (to my
> knowledge) commented on
> adversely, so I'm commenting on it now, and
> registering my dismay.
>
> I think it's easy in a group of highly qualified
> scientists to fall into the
> trap of intellectual pride, and I suggest that we
> all need to learn a little
> more humility, and show a bit more respect for those
> in the minority.
> Frankly, if the level of sarcasm and insults doesn't
> decrease dramatically,
> I will feel that the only thing I can do is withdraw
> politely from the list.
> I am fallible, and liable to write things I later
> regret when I see
> something (as I do all too often) that angers me
> being said on the list.
> And because of that I end up in inner turmoil
> worrying about having said
> something that has deeply offended someone, or
> wondering where the next
> rebuke is going to come from.
>
> Also a word for Jim. When you write lines like:
>
>
> **WARNING - ANTI-CHRISTIAN SENTIMENT TO FOLLOW**
>
>
> you are frankly being very patronising. If you wish
> to enter into an
> Atheist/Christian dialogue, by all means do so, but
> please try at least to
> be courteous. If you write patronising stuff like
> this you will only
> succeed in antagonizing people, and causing them to
> rise to the bait. It
> may not be the way Christians are supposed to
> behave, but we are all
> fallible. It is so easy to bash off a crisply
> worded email and hit the
> "send" button without properly considering the
> consequences.
>
> But I'd just like to summarise my thoughts by
> quoting a short poem by one of
> America's finest poets, Emily Dickinson (who was
> evidently thinking of 1
> Cor 1:20-21 at the time):
>
> ------------------------
> Much Madness is divinest Sense -
> To a discerning Eye -
> Much Sense - the starkest Madness -
> 'Tis the Majority
> In this, as All, prevail -
> Assent - and you are sane -
> Demur - you're straightway dangerous -
> And handled with a Chain -
> -------------------------
>
> So please. Can we all be a bit more loving?
> Iain
>
>
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