From: Hofmann, Jim (jhofmann@exchange.fullerton.edu)
Date: Wed Apr 23 2003 - 13:57:26 EDT
I've found these two useful:
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2000/PSCF9-00Emberger.html
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1999/PSCF12-99Menninga.html
Jim Hofmann
http://nsmserver2.fullerton.edu/departments/chemistry/evolution_creation
/web/
-----Original Message-----
From: douglas.hayworth@perbio.com [mailto:douglas.hayworth@perbio.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 10:47 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: No death before the fall theology
Hello friends:
Can anyone point me to a good reference that specifically addresses the
creationist theological assertion that no scientific theory or theology
can
be valid if it allows for there to be physical death before the fall?
It seems that conservative christians are unwilling to allow for any
ideas
about science/creation that might result in a slippery slope affecting
this
doctrine. I myself cannot fathom how the physical creation could
possibly
not include death at all times in it existence since it has included
life
(whether or not you think that it evolved sensu Van Till's RFEP, as I
do,
or that it was created in six days with all the current species and
components in place. And, theologically, I don't see how the absence of
physical death before the fall is necessary to an otherwise fully
conventional, reformed, and solid christian theology about the
consequences
for sin. Isn't the salient consequence of sin in fact spiritual
separation
from God and his eternal life for us in heaven?
I'm not looking for scientific arguments against this
no-death-before-fall
(NDBF) view. Rather, I need help putting together strictly theological
arguments and a articulating a overall theology that affirms solid
christian theology without NDBF. As I've alluded to in previous posts,
I've been searching for a church home here in Rockford, IL, and have
been
having difficulty finding a church that is serious and vibrant in its
christian faith while able to tolerate (even appreciate!) diversity
about
issues of evolution and science, not to mention politics. I'm
conservative
in theology without being a biblical literalist, so I have to believe
that
there are others like me somewhere in this city of 250,000! One church
I'm
considering seems promising in certain ways, and I anticipate a lunch
meeting with the pastor in which I will need to find out his tolerance
level for my views. I know that he holds to NDBF, but perhaps he can
respect and appreciate my view if I can provide him with a reasonable
theological framework that does not require NDBF.
I am familiar with the concept that the garden of eden was the
miraculous
(supernatural, interventional) exception to the ordinary ecology of the
creation, but that in itself is a somewhat weak argument that looks like
gymnastics on my part to get my science to fit the bible. I need to
articulate a whole theological framework for my view.
Sincerely,
Douglas Hayworth
P.S. I realize that some on the list are themselves of the NDBF camp. Of
course, I can't stop you from taking me to task about this posting, but
I'd
much prefer to obtain the information I am asking for first; then you/we
can discuss those points when they are presented. Thanks.
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