Re: Quality of "ID science" (was Identity of the ID designer)

From: John Burgeson (burgythree@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu Dec 19 2002 - 17:43:08 EST

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    Howard wrote: "
    Here's one suggestion for a possible starting point if you choose to break
    the silence."

    I will have to ponder that. I think my questions may be more foundational
    however.

    Thanks.

    John W. Burgeson (Burgy)
    www.burgy.50megs.com

    >From: "Howard J. Van Till" <hvantill@chartermi.net>
    >To: John Burgeson <burgythree@hotmail.com>
    >CC: asa@calvin.edu
    >Subject: Quality of "ID science" (was Identity of the ID designer)
    >Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 08:55:24 -0500
    >
    >Burgy writes:
    >
    > > So I am going to stand silent on this one for awhile until I can find
    >some
    > > way to pose my questions in a way that does not involve the IDers
    >themselves
    > > and their literature.
    >
    >Here's one suggestion for a possible starting point if you choose to break
    >the silence.
    >
    >Dembski's entire system of arguing for the need for the formational action
    >labeled "intelligent design" (non-natural, non-miraculous, form-conferring
    >action by an unidentified, unembodied, choice-making agent) depends, first
    >and foremost, on successfully demonstrating that some particular biotic
    >system or structure, call it "X", could not possibly have been formed by
    >the
    >joint effect of all actual (whether known or unknown) natural processes. He
    >wishes to have this demonstration seen as a purely scientific enterprise.
    >
    >In his estimation the demonstration of this need is scientifically
    >accomplished by proving that X has the quality labeled "specified
    >complexity." The "complexity" portion of that requirement is satisfied, he
    >says, when it can be demonstrated that the probability for the formation of
    >some X (the bacterial flagellum, for instance) by the joint effect of all
    >actual (both known and unknown) natural processes has a numerical value
    >less
    >than 10 exp (-150). Call this probability P(X|N), where N represents the
    >joint effect of all actual natural processes.
    >
    >Question: Is it possible, on the basis of what is now known about the
    >formational capabilities of the universe, to perform the computation of
    >the
    >actual numerical value of P(X|N) for the E. coli bacterial flagellum?
    >
    >Howard Van Till

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