on 9/5/01 12:41 PM, george murphy at gmurphy@raex.com wrote:
> James W Stark wrote:
>
>> on 9/4/01 11:00 PM, george murphy at gmurphy@raex.com wrote:
>> .............................. Paul's statement about Christ's kenosis in
>> Phil.2:5-11 clearly point to some sort of self-limitation on the part of God.
>> We are to start from there >>> & adapt our understanding of God's being &
>> will to that rather than the other way around.
>>
>>> Shalom, George
>>>
>> Our evidence of God's self-limitation is not confined to scripture.
>> Does not God's gift of freedom imply that God chose to limit God's freedom?
>> This seems very true to me.
>>
> Belief in divine self-limitation should be based on God's revelation of God's
> own character in Christ and in the history of Israel of which Christ is the
> culmination. That belief can help us to understand how God is at work in the
> world that is described by scientific laws: That's the thrust of my articles
> in the March 2001 PSCF and in the June 1998 Zygon. But an attempt to determine
> God's character on the basis of our experience of the world makes the same
> mistake as the view I criticized. We are all too prone to argue selectively
> in order to end up with the kind of God we think God ought to be. I would be a
> bit wary about arguing that any kind of creaturely freedom requires a
> limitation of divine freedom or vice versa. It doesn't have to be a
> zero-sum game.
>
> Shalom, George
Thanks, this was a stimulating response for me. I re-read your article in
PSCF with a new slant that I missed the first time.
It raises the issue of what reference for truth that we all ought to use.
You, of course, promote Christ, the cross, and the history of Israel. That
reference should guide what we choose to believe about the full nature of
God as well as our perception of God's self-limitation.
Since we all start with self-referencing as our standard of truth, we tend
to perceive God as "the kind of God we think God ought to be". Thus, our
personal worldviews are our standards of reference for truth. They become
our personal filters for truth. Our perceptions of God and truth will
continue to change as we allow our worldviews to change. We must use our
free will. Those who resist change to their personal worldview will tend to
interpret free will as a fixed program.
Since Jesus chose to use intentional change rather than force to encourage
moral change, God then will not force any change upon us. God limits God's
use of force to the laws that God created and we seek to discover in all
fields of study. Since Jesus' life was a perfect witness to his use of
free will, our task in life is to intentionally change our personal
worldviews to become more like that of Jesus. However, it will be a
continuing task that will need the Guidance of God. We cannot leap to some
estimate of a fixed perfect worldview. When Jesus said that the truth will
make us free, he was telling us that we must look beyond our personal
worldviews for that truth. It all becomes a journey of faith that is known
as the Jesus movement. This implies that God has limited God's continuing
influence to access through our use of free will. We must choose to believe
in God. We must choose to believe in the existence of true free will. We
become God-referencing creatures for moral truth.
Now, since we all start with self-referencing, all religions and science
will influence the formation of personal worldviews. Choice for what to
believe by any individual has expanded to a chaotic level for many
individuals. Trust in all sources of authority is low. We are ripe for a
major shift from forced change to intentional change. All dogmatism must be
set aside. We must intentionally create non-threatening environments for
open discussion. This ASA listserve should encourage such an atmosphere,
even when we read apparently outlandish claims. We all have been
conditioned to defend our worldviews and attack any perceived threat. Only
intentional change by the individual can change the worldview of that
individual. The reference standard that each of us use will remain a
choice. We can only help each other choose by sharing without judgment.
Enough said. May God guide all of you as you share your worldviews with
others.
James W. Stark
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Sep 06 2001 - 08:57:21 EDT