On Sun, 02 Sep 2001 12:05:03 -0400 James W Stark <stark2301@voyager.net>
writes:
> I am resending this note as a request for a new thread on
> mathematical
> truth.
>
> on 8/31/01 3:21 AM, psiigii at psiigii@home.com wrote:
>
> >> >Thank you, James! God did not create mathematics, nor did He
> create
> >> physics.
> >
> > OK! Why not?
> > In my worldview reality consists of a physical universe (matter),
> a mental
> > world, (our awareness of the laws of mathematics as well as any
> subject
> > matter.), and the spiritual realm (known to us through our
> consciousness.)
> >
> > Humans only use mathematics and physics. Who or what created the
> laws used
> > in these areas, if it was not God?
> >
If God created mathematics, which ones among the various alternatives?
Integer arithmetic, real numbers, imaginary numbers, mixed numbers (and
the sophisticated analytical ways to handle the latter), infinite
numbers, modular numbers (in infinite variety). Absolute geometry,
Euclidean, Lobachevskian, Riemannian, analytic, and various extensions in
terms of dimensions and techniques, etc. Newton's fluxions, Maclaurin's
redoing these as geometric theorems, differential calculus, integrals,
partial differentials, and a variety of more sophiticated versions. What
is provably true in some of these is provably false in others. And Goedel
and others have proved that there unprovables. Is the deity behind this
confusion, along with complexity theory (aka deterministic chaos)? On
what basis can you render a decision of divine involvement?
I understand that there are a few primitive tribes whose number system
consists of one, two, many, which seems to be echoed on our comparison of
adjectives. The biggest number in the ancient Greek vocabulary was
myriad, 10,000, though the genius of Archimedes came up with myriads of
myriads. The largest number written in Roman numerals is a few million.
We have regular names up to vigintillion, which is larger than the
multipliers scientists use, though there is no absolute limit. We also
have the irregularly named googol and googolplex. Which is God's level?
Or is this a matter of progressive revelation?
Was it Weyl who said, "God made the integers and man made all the rest"?
Will this be a way out? If so, why? How do you justify the claim? Math
seems very different than matter (mass-energy), which is not illusory.
The notion that E=mc^2 makes matter illusory is a delusion.
Dave
> >> >God created matter.
> >
> > Or should we say energy rather than matter? Einstein's discovery
> of E = mc2
> > can be interpreted to imply how much energy is required to give
> the appearance
> > of a certain amount of mass, which suggests that matter is an
> illusion. Did
> > God create matter an illusion? Eastern religions start creation
> with
> > illusion, while Christianity starts with truth.
> >
> > How ought we feel about mathematics not always estimating truth?
> >
> > James Stark
> >
> >
> >> > "Physics" is just man's feeble attempt to grasp the true
> > essence of the matter God created. Mathematics is just the
> language man uses
> > in these attempts. As man's insights into the true nature of
> "material world"
> > grows,
> > the mathematical "language" we employ to conceptualize/formalize
> our
> > insights--
> > which, BTW, may still not be the true essence--has evolved to this
> end. In
> > the
> > end, however, physics is still man's attempt to understand, and
> mathematics is
> > still just man's language to verbalize our understanding (again,
> not
> > necessarily
> > being the truth). Both are man's creations, not God's.
> >
> > Howard Meyer
> >
> >
> > (BTW, George, I read your response to James before writing
> this...)
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James W Stark" <stark2301@voyager.net>
> > To: "asa" <asa@calvin.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 7:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: How Einstein and Hammond proved God exists
> >
> >> > on 8/30/01 9:07 AM, George Hammond at ghammond@mediaone.net
> wrote:
> >> >
> >>> > > < large snip>
> >> >
> >>> > > If then, "Man is made in the image of God", Riemannian
> >>> > > geometry must be the description of God.. or more
> specifically,
> >>> > > Einstein's theory is. See:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > http://people.ne.mediaone.net/ghammond/Rie-Helm-Weyl.html
> >> >
> >> > Quoting from this site:
> >> > _Now, beyond all this, what we see is that the "geometric
> properties
> >> > of space itself" are the CAUSAL FORCE that determines the
> geometrical
> >> > shape of the human body. Because of this, it turns out that the
> >> > "geometrical shape of the brain" is also determined and is
> found to
> >> > be "3-axis Cartesian" in SHAPE (notice I said SHAPE, not
> volume).
> >> > The Brain actually has Axes of mechanical symmetry, just like
> >> > the Body:_
> >> >
> >> > Why do you confine your concept of God to mathematics.
> Mathematics can
> >> only
> >> > estimate what might be fixed laws. It cannot guarantee truth.
> Physicists
> >> > are now suggesting that matter is an illusion.
> >> >
> >> > As a reference see:
> <http://www.calphysics.org/pop_articles.html>
> >> >
> >> > See the article Beyond E=mc2 for how we can reason this way. I
> quote:
> >> >
> >> > _It is actually a statement about how much energy is required
> to give the
> >> > appearance of a certain amount of mass, rather than about the
> conversion of
> >> > one fundamental thing, energy, into another fundamental thing,
> mass._
> >> >
> >> > [B. Haisch, A. Rueda & H.E. Puthoff, The Sciences, Vol. 34, No.
> 6, November
> >> > / December, pp. 26-31 (1994).]
> >> >
> >> > Mathematics cannot explain the truth of a non-deterministic
> free will.
> >> >
> >> > God used God's free will to create mathematics. The Christian
> God embraces
> >> > the truth of non-deterministic free will. Your association of
> God to a
> >> > mathematical proof cannot establish truth.
> >> >
> >> > James Stark
> >> >
> >> >
> >
>
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