At 10:39 AM 2/22/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Dick Fischer wrote: "But if God can be "surprised" by future events, then
>"those He foreknew were predestined" is a hard verse to reconcile with
>that point of view."
>
>Why?
>
>One is not irreconcilable with the other at all, Dick.
>
>I know that someday I will die. Along the way to that event I am all too
>often surprised by events.
>God knows I am of the elect. (I'm Presbyterian, BTW, one of the "frozen
>chosen."). Yet he MAY (note the absence of a strong claim here) be
>surprised at some of the goofs I make along the way, goofs performed
>because I am not a robot. Hopefully, he may well be surprised at some of
>the better stuff I do too!
> < G >
> Burgy
Hi Burgy, as always I appreciate your comments.
It is remarkable to me that even though I disagree with you on many aspects
of the
origins debate, I almost always agree with you on theological issues. I
agree here
almost completely, except for the last paragraph. I believe I am of the
elect now,
but have not always been. It could have been otherwise. I know that some
don't like
this, but I won't apologize for it. As a good Southern Baptist I accept
both predestination
and free will simultaneously since the Bible teaches both. But when the
rubber meets
the road, I always go with free will. Yes, I know this is difficult, but so
is the alternative.
My answer to the question above ("those He foreknew were predestined") is
to go look
at Ephesians.
Let me quote Ephesians 1:3-14, adding my emphasis for the point I want to make
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us
*in Christ* with
every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us *in
him* before the foundation
of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. He destined
us in love to be
his sons *through Jesus Christ*, according to the purpose of his will, to
the praise of his glorious
grace which he freely bestowed on us *in the Beloved*. *In him* we have
redemption through his
blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his
grace which he lavished
upon us. For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery
of his will, according
to his purpose which he set forth *in Christ* as a plan for the fulness of
time, to unite all things *in him*,
things in heaven and things on earth. *In him*, according to the purpose of
him who accomplishes
all things according to the counsel of his will, we who first hoped in
Christ have been destined
and appointed to live for the praise of his glory. *In him* you also, who
have heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with
the promised Holy Spirit,
which is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of
it, to the praise of his glory."
Again, *emphasis* added. My interpretation of this is quite simple. If I am
not in Christ, I am
not one of the Elect. I can freely choose whether to be *in him*. All the
above promises apply
to Christ, I become part of it by choosing to be in Him.
Brian Harper | "If you don't understand
Associate Professor | something and want to
Applied Mechanics | sound profound, use the
The Ohio State University | word 'entropy'"
| -- Morrowitz
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