Fw: Trying again

From: Russell Maatman (rmaat@mtcnet.net)
Date: Thu Feb 10 2000 - 11:51:24 EST

  • Next message: David Campbell: "Re: Fw: Trying again"

    George and other ASAers:

    See my comments below.

    George Murphy wrote on Wednesday, February 09, 2000 7:45 PM:
    >
    > Russell Maatman wrote:
    > ..................................
    > > My thesis which ties these ten points together is this: The image of
    God is
    > > not detected or determined by behavior, mental capacity, or body
    structure.
    > > Beings which do not bear the image of God could still carry out
    human-like
    > > activities and could be physically similar to human beings. Rather, the
    > > image of God is that which makes human beings human; it is that which
    needs
    > > restoring by Christ. ..................................
    > Russ -
    > This 1 paragraph from your post is central to your argument and it seems
    > to me that a lot is left unsaid or is unclear here.
    > You have not said what you understand "image of God" to mean.

    Before considering what the "image of God" _means_, let's consider who
    bears that image. Those beings who bear that image who are the descendants
    of Adam.

    > There have, of
    > course, been a number of interpretations of this in the Christian
    tradition -
    > rationality, dominion over creation, & having true fear of God & trust in
    God as some of
    > the more important. These are not mutually exclusive. & the point is not
    that humanity
    > was given some one characteristic, "the image of God", in addition to a
    lot of other
    > properties. Rather, being in the image of God means that the human as a
    whole
    > "corresponds to God", is able to be in communication with God and respond
    to God
    > appropriately.

    I do not object to considering seriously these as marks of the "image of
    God." In all cases, however, these characteristics represent a _potential_
    behavior--the being can communicate with God, etc. Many people do not
    utilize this potential, but they still bear God's image because they are
    children of Adam. In this life, the image of God in every person is broken
    because of Adam's sin. But for Christians the image is eventually
    restored--presumably completely restored at the end of life.

    > Now it is true that we're not going to find fossil remnants of the
    _imago dei_
    > in that sense. But if the concept means anything at all it will have
    consequences in
    > the lives of human beings which may leave clues. E.g., I would suggest
    that the
    > indications we have of Neanderthal &c religious practices which Glenn M.
    e.g., has
    > detailed suggest, not human beings in the "state of integrity" but those
    in which the
    > imago is damaged & distorted. What is restored in Christ is faith in the
    true God,
    > & its absence is shown by faith in false gods.
    > Now whether or not my interpretation of that particular set of data is
    correct
    > or not can be debated. But my general point is that unless the imago dei
    has some
    > consequences which can be discerned by observation _and theological
    analysis_ then it's
    > not a very helpful concept for theological anthropology.

    I understand your general point. But my general point is that we must begin
    with the idea that those who bear God's image are those who descend from
    Adam. Then, we do indeed perceive--first of all, as we study
    Scripture--some of the consequences of bearing that image. Right there is
    the nub: I'm claiming that going in the reverse direction, that is,
    relating some of these consequences to beings not otherwise known to be
    human, and then claiming that they are therefore human, is fallacious. It's
    the fallacy we all learned in our first logic course: "If p, then q" does
    not prove "If q, then p." I hope I am not descending to the trivial when I
    point out that sometimes animals--dogs, for example--risk their lives to
    save a child. So even the presence of altruism does not prove the presence
    of the image of God.

    > If all we can say is that
    > creatures who are genuinely human differ from other hominids by virtue of
    the imago dei,
    > & the imago dei is what makes creatures human, then we haven't said
    anything.

    Obviously, if that last sentence of yours summarized what I am saying, I
    would be guilty of circular reasoning.

    Russ

    Russell Maatman
    e-mail: rmaat@mtcnet.net
    Home: 401 5th Avenue
    Sioux Center, IA 51250



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Feb 10 2000 - 11:47:38 EST