Re: Bone Study Suggests Ancestors Were KnuckleWalkers, etc

From: Stephen E. Jones (sejones@iinet.net.au)
Date: Mon Mar 27 2000 - 06:42:20 EST

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    Reflectorites

    Below are web articles for the period 16 - 22 March, with my comments in square
    brackets.

    Steve

    ========================================================
    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000322/sc/science_knuckles_2.html
    Yahoo! ... March 22 ... Bone Study Suggests Ancestors Were
    KnuckleWalkers ... WASHINGTON (Reuters) - When humanity's early
    ancestors first jumped down from the trees, they did not walk fully upright
    but probably scooted along on their knuckles much like chimpanzees and
    gorillas do today.... A chance discovery made by looking at a cast of the
    bones of "Lucy," the most famous fossil remains of the early hominid
    known scientifically as Australopithecus afarensis, shows her wrist is stiff,
    like a chimpanzee's ... This suggests that her ancestors -- and ours --
    walked on their knuckles. The stiff wrist limits the flexibility of the hand
    but makes the forearm strong enough to carry the weight of a heavy
    primate .... "We have found evidence in the wrist joint that sheds new light
    on arguably the most fundamental adaptation in humans ... which is why
    did humans start walking upright?" .... "Walking upright is the hallmark of
    humanity. It is the feature that defines all of our ancestors to the exclusion
    of our ape relatives." Lucy, who lived in Africa between 4.1 and 3 million
    years ago, did walk upright. Her hip and leg bones make that clear. ... But
    she did not have the flexible wrists that allowed later humans to throw
    spears and make tools. .... Humans came to walk upright, leaving their
    hands free to gather and carry things, while apes compromised, keeping
    their ability to climb while also sometimes coming to the ground. ...
    Chimpanzees and gorillas have a special locking mechanism that prevents
    the wrists from cocking back very far." Lucy has it, too. He said it was not
    until Australopithecus africanus emerged, about 2.5 million years ago, that
    the wrist became mobile like that of modern humans. Now Richmond said
    the question is why Lucy's ancestors started to stand upright if they were
    already able to come down from the trees and get around on the ground.
    "This supports theories that argue there must have been something new in
    terms of the use of hands," he said. "The hands were being dedicated to a
    new role -- such as picking food from trees while standing upright or
    carrying food." Also: http://www.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/03/23/knucklewalkers.ap/index.html
    ... Other scientists praised the research, which appears to resolve a
    longstanding debate over genetic tests that show a close evolutionary
    relationship between chimps and humans even though it was not supported
    by fossils. "We are more closely related to chimps than either of us is to
    gorillas, yet they share the same specialization that doesn't appear in our
    ancestry," .... "The simple solution is that a common ancestor was a
    knuckle-walker, but the fossil record doesn't seem to jibe with that." The
    new research shows that at least some early humans had that unique trait.
    "If the anatomical analyses are shown to be correct, I think it's a hugely
    important breakthrough in our understanding of early bipedalism," ... [If
    bipedalism in Lucy's legs arose while her arms were still able to
    knucklewalk, then this suggests that bipedalism was a *pre*-adaptation not
    an adaptation. That is, function followed form, not the other way around as
    Darwinism would expect. That is, the genetic programs for Lucy's legs,
    feet, hips, spine, skull base and balance mechanism all started to change in
    the direction of bipedalism and `her' behavior had to adapt to these
    changes. But the apes never received those genetic program changes, only
    the line which eventually led to humans. This is IMHO good evidence for
    Intelligent Design, not for the `blind watchmaker'!]

    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000323/sc/science_fly_2.html Yahoo!
    ... March 23 ... Scientists Map Fruit Fly's Genes ... ROCKVILLE, Md.
    (Reuters) - Scientists said ... they had sequenced all the genes in the
    common fruit fly, a move that could provide new insights into human
    disease and evolution. It is the most complex organism yet to have its
    genome sequenced -- meaning the makeup of its DNA has been mapped
    but not yet decoded. Fruit flies, a favorite tool of biologists, have much in
    common with higher animals including as humans. The researchers, at
    Celera Genomics ...and elsewhere say they have found a surprising number
    of new genes that we share with the tiny insects, known scientifically as
    Drosophila melanogaster... While the scientific community has been
    strongly skeptical of Celera's approach to sequencing genes, known as the
    "shotgun approach," ... this week's edition of the journal Science is
    unusually lavish in its praise. "This sequence may be the Rosetta Stone for
    deciphering the human genome," ... a "landmark achievement that marks
    the end of a century of gene hunting and heralds a new era of exploration
    and analysis." Genomics is a new science that involves studying the entire
    collection of an organism's genes. The idea is to compare them to each
    other and to other creatures to learn more about the very stuff of life -...
    what makes an amoeba different from a chimpanzee. The eventual aim is to
    come to know and understand every single human gene.... Both Celera and
    a public collaboration known as the Human Genome Project are racing to
    finish the first step in this process, which is sequencing all the 100,000
    human genes. Celera says it is more than 90 percent finished and is
    presenting its fruit fly data to show its computer-based methods work. ...
    they must still analyze their map and that their work is far from done. ...
    Also: http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/032400sci-human-genome.html
    The New York Times March 24, 2000 ... PITTSBURGH, ... 1,300 fly biologists at
    their annual meeting found on their chairs a gift from Celera, a CD-ROM of the
    genome sequence of their favorite organism. Dr. Venter was given a standing
    ovation ... Some biologists say the Drosophila work does not guarantee that the
    Venter approach will meet with similar success with the human genome. "Though
    a major accomplishment, I don't think it proves they can assemble the human
    genome," .... One immediate surprise is that so few genetic instructions are
    required for the development and maintenance of a fly, compared with the number
    known to be needed by other organisms. The fruit fly is a complex miniature
    machine with elaborate behavior and a courtship ritual that, fly people assert,
    closely resembles the human variety. Yet it has only twice as many genes as yeast,
    a single-celled fungus, and considerably fewer than the 18,425 of the C. elegans
    roundworm, the only other animal whose entire genome has been sequenced. "This
    says you build complexity not by having more genes but by using them in more
    inventive ways," ... people, with their predicted total of 80,000 genes, acquire their
    greater complexity from a more elaborate arrangement of the same basic parts,
    resembling a fruit fly much as a supercomputer resembles a personal computer.
    "Once evolution got it right, it basically made minor tinkerings," he said, referring
    to the time, 600 million years ago, when flies and people last had a common
    ancestor ... there is one major omission from the fly genome: the large DNA
    regions that form the central part of the fly's four chromosomes ...This DNA is
    thought to contain almost no genes and to play a largely structural role ... In the
    case of the fly, 60 million of the 180 million DNA units in the genome are
    structural DNA, and 120 million units are in regions that code for genes. The
    structural DNA consists of the same string of DNA letters repeated thousands of
    times over, and cannot be decoded by present techniques. Most of the remaining
    gaps in the fly genome occur in the zones where the gene-coding arms of the
    chromosomes merge into the central regions of structural DNA. ... participants at
    the jamboree were the first to see the fly genome and try to define the little
    creature's complex genetic programming ... The biologists would describe a
    pattern that should be looked for, and the bioinformaticists -- a new class of expert
    who use computers to analyze genomes - would stay up all night writing the
    appropriate software. .... "I am still optimistic that when people see the Drosophila
    results, there will be renewed efforts at collaboration," Dr. Venter said, alluding to
    recently broken-off negotiations with the public consortium to join forces on the
    human genome. But the public consortium, treading piece by piece along the
    genome, is also making substantial progress in a race now in its final laps. ... [A
    fascinating `tortoise and hare' race! There is a lot of grist for ID's mill here.
    Genomes like computers. A new science of " bioinformatics". The fact that using
    genes "in more inventive ways" is more important than their number. Also IMHO
    ID would predict that the noncoding sections of DNA will turn out to be
    important, e.g. to slow down replication to better match cellular materials
    transport in times of adversity and/or have a subtle code embedded in it which is
    important to the using of genes "in more inventive ways", etc.]

    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000317/sc/space_meteorite_1.html Yahoo! ...
    March 17 ... Meteorite a 'Cosmic Bonanza' for Scientists VANCOUVER (Reuters)
    - A meteorite that dazzled viewers when it exploded in the atmosphere over the
    wilderness of the Canada-Alaska border may soon provide scientists with a
    glimpse into life before the Earth was created. Charcoal-like fragments of the
    meteorite indicate it is about 4.5 billion years old -- possibly predating the birth of
    the solar system -and make the discovery a "cosmic bonanza," .... "It tells us what
    the initial materials were like that which went into making up the Earth, the moon
    and the sun," .... The meteorite exploded ... January 18 ... The location of the
    explosion turned out to be ideal for scientists, because the frozen conditions helped
    preserve organic materials ... About 2 pounds (1 kg) of meteorite fragments have
    been recovered so far... Also: http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/03/17/yukon.meteor/index.html
    CNN ... Rare meteorite promises glimpse into dawn of creation ... March 17, 2000
    ...JOHNSON SPACE CENTER, Texas (CNN) -- ...The crumbly, black, porous
    rock fragments have charred, pocked surfaces and retain the smell of sulfur. They
    look like used charcoal briquettes. But they actually are examples of carbonaceous
    chondrite, a rare meteorite type that holds many kinds of carbon and organics, the
    basic ingredients in the primordial soup from which life arose. Only about 2
    percent of meteorites known to have reached Earth are carbonaceous chondrites,
    which tend to deteriorate when they enter the atmosphere or during weathering on
    the ground. ... The last time a similar carbonaceous chondrite fell to Earth and was
    recovered was 31 years ago....They are the only newly fallen meteorite fragments
    found and transferred to a laboratory without thawing, NASA said. Keeping them
    constantly frozen reduces the risk that organics and other volatile compounds will
    escape. ... [This might settle the question of whether life's 20 L-amino acids and
    other biomolecules occur naturally in space.]

    http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2565029560-4d4 ... 03/17/00
    Museum Unveils Bird-Like Dinosaur ... DANIA BEACH, Fla. (AP) _ Scientists
    have identified what may be the most convincing evolutionary link yet between
    dinosaurs and birds: a 75 million-year-old creature with a roadrunner's body, arms
    that resembled clawed wings, and thin, hair-like feathers. The Florida Institute of
    Paleontology unveiled the first recovered skeleton of the species _ bambiraptor
    feinbergi _ .... It is not clear whether it could fly, but experts said that anatomically it
    is the most bird-like dinosaur yet discovered. They said the finding advances the
    increasingly popular theory that birds evolved from dinosaurs. ... Ostrum said
    bambiraptor has several traits usually found in birds, such as a wishbone instead of a
    full breastbone and avian-like arm bones. About 3 feet long and weighing 7 pounds,
    .... It would have preyed on small mammals and reptiles, using its teeth, sharp talons
    and whip-like 18-inch tail to subdue its prey, ... It was fast, had a keen sense of smell
    and the structure of its arms and its feathers may have allowed it to fly... In October,
    Canadian paleontologist Phil Currie reported that a turkey-sized dinosaur called
    archeoraptor that lived 120 million to 140 million years ago was the first dinosaur
    capable of flying ... Also: http://www.sunsentinel.com/news/daily/detail/0,1136,29000000000113706,00.html
    Sun-Sentinel ... Graves museum unveils rare dinosaur fossil -- the Bambiraptor ...
    Mar. 17, 2000 DANIA BEACH -- .... Bambiraptor will take center stage at the
    Florida symposium of dinosaur-bird evolution April 7-9 .... It will feature such
    experts as Phil J. Currie, curator of dinosaurs at Royal Tyrell Museum of
    Paleontology in Canada...because Bambiraptor was excavated almost intact and
    shares so many features with birds, it will convince more people that birds descend
    from dinosaurs. "When you look at it, you can easily understand the transition
    from dinosaur to bird," Currie said. .... [At 75 myo, Bambiraptor is over 70 myr
    too late to be a plausible ancestor of birds - Archaeopteryx is dated at ~ 145 mya.
    More likely IMHO is that Bambiraptor is a flightless bird. The first article does not
    point out that archeoraptor was a fake and the second that Currie advised National
    Geographic that archeoraptor was genuine. Currie seems to have a strong desire to
    convince the public that "birds descend from dinosaurs" and this may have warped
    his scientific objectivity?]

    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000316/sc/science_snakes_1.html Yahoo! ...
    March 16 ... Argument About Snake Evolution Rekindled by Fossil ... NEW
    YORK (Reuters) - Did snakes first slither onto land from the sea, or did their
    ancestors first evolve on land? That's one of the questions a fossil snake with legs
    has raised for scientists who thought they had already sorted out the origin of
    serpents. The snake fossil, found more than 20 years ago in a limestone quarry
    near Jerusalem, represents a new species, according to researchers .... "Haasiophis
    terrasanctus" ... was about three feet long (0.9 meters) and lived in the shallow
    waters of a Cretaceous sea that covered part of the Middle East during the days of
    the dinosaurs. It is the second limbed snake to come from Ein Yabrud, a 95
    million-year- old bed of sedimentary rock that also yielded "Pachyrachis
    problematicus," another important fossil with clues to the origins of snakes.
    Scientists believe that modern snakes are descended from lizards and that they lost
    their limbs over time. Remnants of these limbs can still be found in the anatomy of
    boa constrictors and pythons, just as the remnants of tails can be found in human
    anatomy. But a description of Haasiophis ... has researchers once again puzzling
    whether snakes evolved from sea-going lizards, or from lizards which lived in
    seashore burrows. .... In the 1970s, when Haas first described Pachyrachis, he
    thought that the well-developed hind limbs and advanced skull characteristics
    meant that the fossils weren't from snakes at all. Instead he thought they were
    reptiles related to a species of huge ocean-going Cretaceous lizards called
    mosasaurs. Then in 1997, certain features in Pachyrachis' skull led scientists to put
    it at the root of the snake's family tree as a sort of "missing link" between
    mosasaurs and true snakes that at some point took to the land. Rieppel and his
    colleagues now argue that traits found in Haasiophis and Pachyrachis are more
    akin to those of modern snakes, like the ability to unhinge their jaws to eat things
    larger than their heads. Such traits, ..., mean that they are more closely related to
    modern snakes. So they "cannot be related to primitive mosasaurs," .... Rieppel
    believes the ancestors of modern snakes were burrowing lizards that lived on land,
    but he acknowledges that the West Bank fossils do not provide clear answers to
    the question. ... "And so we are back to not knowing what kind of an origin snakes
    had," ... the most intriguing aspect about the West Bank fossils is they may show
    that certain "atavistic" traits can re-evolve if the right genes are triggered. The
    West Bank fossils may be snakes whose limbs re-evolved, making them "real
    snakes, just extinct real snakes" with legs, .... Greene postulates that if animals like
    the West Bank fossils could re-evolve limbs, then other animals that have certain
    genes they never lost but whose "triggers" are dormant could re-evolve those
    traits. Maybe humans will end up with tails again. Also at:
    http://www.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/03/17/snakelegs.ap/ CNN ... Leggy snake
    slithers out of obscurity March 17, 2000 ... WASHINGTON (AP) ... The snake's
    legs aren't much to brag about. They are too small in relation to the animal's body
    to have any function in moving the snake, Rieppel said. Modern pythons have a
    rudimentary hind limb, usually little more than a claw of cartilage tipped with bone
    that they use during mating and occasional fighting, and it is possible that
    Haasiophis' leg served a similar purpose .... his team's analysis also indicates that
    these two snakes were not primitive ancestors, but advanced snakes similar to
    modern boas and pythons. The new anatomical interpretation suggests that neither
    Pachyrhachis nor Haasiophis have anything to do with snake origins ... &
    http://chicagotribune.com/news/metro/chicago/article/0,2669,SAV-0003170288,FF.html
    Chicago Tribune ... SCIENTIST GOES OUT ON A LIMB FOR SNAKES LEG
    FOSSILS STIR AGE-OLD DEBATE ... March 17, 2000 In the third chapter of
    Genesis, the tale of Adam and Eve and the serpent who enticed them ends with
    God's famous punishment for the wily reptile: "So the Lord God said to the
    serpent, `Because you have done this, Cursed are you above all the livestock and
    all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days
    of your life....' " While the Bible does not specifically say it, the implication is that
    the snake once had legs to get around on, and God took them away.... The
    religious interest came about because the fossilized snakes with legs were found in
    a limestone quarry so close to Jerusalem. Many fundamentalists were convinced
    the quarry must be the site of the Garden of Eden. They assumed the fossils were
    skeletons of some of the last limbed snakes to live before God took their legs away
    in punishment for tempting Adam's wife Eve in the garden. [I don't know about
    this bit of Biblical eisegesis, but this appears to be another evolutionary transitional
    `just-so' story which (like the Biblical snake) bites the dust! It has been one of the
    few laws of evolution, i.e. Dollo's Law, that evolution cannot reverse itself. If traits
    can be phenotypically lost, but remain genotypically unexpressed, then atavistically
    reappear again when the conditions are right, it would throw another huge spanner
    in the works of Darwinism, because claimed naturally selected features could just
    be previously switched off genes which have switched on again. It also would
    spike the pseudogene anti-design arguments for a similar reason. A pseudogene
    could just be just a switched off gene which will switch on again one day when the
    conditions are right, or it could be a gene that was once switched on but is now
    switched off because it is no longer needed.]

    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000315/sc/health_pigs_3.html Yahoo! ...
    March 15 ... LONDON (Reuters) - Pig Organ Transplants Raise Ethical Dilemmas
    ...The cloning of pigs could relieve the global shortage of donor organs but critics
    ... challenged the ethics of changing the genetic makeup of animal species and
    using their organs in humans ... Who gave humans the right to alter other species?
    Should animals endure suffering and cruelty so we can live longer? Will animal
    organs intrinsically change the people who receive them? Can animal viruses be
    transferred to humans and do they pose a threat to human health? ... The use of
    animal organs came closer to reality Tuesday when a British biopharmaceutical
    company, PPL Therapeutics Plc, announced it had created the world's first cloned
    pigs. The Edinburgh-based group hailed the achievement as a very important step
    in xenotransplantation, animal-to-human transplants, and predicted cloned pigs
    could one day provide a limitless supply of organs. ... patients receiving animal
    organs would have severe restrictions placed on their lifestyles. "Recommendations
    have been published by the UK Xenotransplantation Interim Regulatory Authority
    ... which suggests that anyone who receives an animal organ should never have
    unprotected sex and will never have children," ...the British Union for the
    Abolition of Vivisection, said a poll it conducted showed that 68 percent of
    Britons are against animal-to-human transplants. "This opinion poll shows that
    over two thirds of the population want a freeze on pig- to-human organ transplants
    and a full public debate -- this cannot be ignored," .... [A good summary of the
    ethical concerns re cloning for animal-human transplantation. My semester Biology
    assignment is on cloning: its methods and ethics, so this has come at *just* the
    right time for me!]

    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000315/sc/genome_reaction_1.html Yahoo!
    ... March 15 ... British Biotechs Defend Patenting Gene Technology LONDON
    (Reuters) - Britain's biotechnology industry defended its right to patent gene-based
    inventions on Wednesday following a move by the United States and Britain to
    free up access to the mapping of human genes. The Bioindustry Association said
    patents were the only way to exploit the promise offered by decoding the human
    genetic map, offering companies a reward for spending an average 300 to 400
    million pounds and 10 to 15 years in developing new drugs. ... "It's quite simply a
    case of no patent, no cure," .... But the White House itself said ... the move was
    not aimed at hurting biotech companies, rather at promoting competition and
    profits from making the research freely available to firms so they can use it to
    create new medicines. ... A handful of genomics companies, like U.S.-based Celera
    Genomics, are racing to sequence all the genes in the human body, and want to
    patent and license their information for profit. While such firms might be hurt, ...
    biotech companies that actually developed the drugs would benefit from free
    access to the information. [It seems that applications based on genes will be
    patentable, but not the genes themselves?]

    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000315/sc/science_sex_1.html Yahoo! ...
    March 15 ... British Researchers Show Why Sex Is Here to Stay LONDON
    (Reuters) - Sex isn't the quickest way to continue a species but British scientists
    think they may have figured out why it is here to stay. Asexual organisms --
    including many plants and fungi and some invertebrate animals -- can reproduce
    more quickly because each individual makes a clone of itself without having to
    mate first. Evolutionary biologists have puzzled over the reason why asexual
    reproduction, which produces more offspring more rapidly, has not replaced sexual
    reproduction. ... researchers ... constructed a model that demonstrates why. It
    shows the advantages of asexual reproduction are eliminated because more
    offspring are competing for the same food and resources. "It's an ecological
    problem... "Co-existence is the stable outcome. The sexual and the asexual can co-
    exist quite happily even though the sexual one reproduces at half the rate of the
    asexual one," ... "The first animals and plants in the world were asexual and at
    some point sexuality evolved, so one can ask the reverse question of how it ever
    got a foothold," .... sexual reproduction has the added advantage of genetic
    variation and allows species to rid themselves of mutations. "The asexuals do
    themselves in. They are ridden with competition so they negate their own threat to
    the sexual species," ... [This explains why sexual reproduction has advantages in
    the long run. It does not explain why it came into existence in the first place. A
    `blind watchmaker' cannot see the long run. All it can see is the immediate
    advantage. This is even more of a problem for `selfish gene' neo-Darwinism. Why
    would selfish genes allow themselves to be eliminated for the long run good of the
    organism and the ecology? This is of course not a problem for Intelligent Design
    theory.]

    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000318/sc/spain_lizards_1.html Yahoo!
    March 18 ... Spanish Scientists Discover 'Extinct' Lizards MADRID (Reuters) -
    Spanish biologists have discovered a species of giant lizard that was previously
    thought to have died out around 500 years ago ... The lizard, called galliota
    gomerona by its scientific name, was only known to scientists through fossilized
    remains until the discovery of six living examples on the cliffs of La Gomera, one
    of the Canary Islands ... the lizards, which measure up to half a meter (yard) in
    length, were slow moving and easy prey for predators introduced to the island by
    man, especially cats. ... Scientists believe the giant lizards arrived in the Canary
    Islands from Africa around 15 million years ago. ... Also at:
    http://www.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/03/18/bc.spain.lizardfound.ap/index.html
    CNN ... The half-meter (1.6-feet)-long reptile was discovered in Spain's Canary
    Islands.... In recent years, other giant lizards have been found in Tenerife and in el
    Hierro. ... [One wonders how many other claimed species extinctions aren't just
    that they have become rare and not easily found?]

    HIV/AIDS:
    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000316/sc/aids_unicef_1.html Yahoo! ...
    March 16 ... Confused Myanmar AIDS Signals Alarm United Nations ...
    BANGKOK, Thailand (Reuters) - Military-ruled Myanmar is giving "confused
    and conflicting signals" about its AIDS crisis and not diverting enough
    resources to essential health programs, UNICEF's regional director has said.
    "There are times when one part of the Burmese (Myanmar) government seems
    to acknowledge HIV/AIDS is a big and growing problem," ... And then you
    hear another part of the government at another time saying 'it's not a big
    problem, it's all being exaggerated'. ... the Myanmar government's estimate of
    HIV infections was only around 25,000 while the World Health Organization
    projected at least 440,000. ... The fact is that HIV/AIDS incidents are on the
    rise and no effective measures seem to be taken in Myanmar that are
    commensurate with the crisis." ... General Says Aids Problem Exaggerated ...
    General Khin Nyunt, the intelligence chief considered the most powerful figure
    in Myanmar's government, accused critics of exaggerating the country's AIDS
    problem and said it was not the catastrophe they maintained. ... [Yet another
    country saying that international statistics on HIV/AIDS are being
    exaggerated. Of course Myanmar one could argue that has a bias to understate
    the problem but one could also argue that the UN has a bias the other way?]
    ========================================================

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    "At a recent meeting in Chicago, a highly distinguished international panel
    of experts was polled. All considered the experimental production of life in
    the laboratory imminent, and one maintained that this has already been
    done-his opinion was not based on a disagreement about the facts but on a
    definition as to just where, in a continuous sequence, life can be said to
    begin." (Simpson G.G., "The World into Which Darwin Led Us," Science, Vol.
    131, No. 3405, 1 April *1960*, pp.966-974, p.969. My emphasis)
    Stephen E. Jones | sejones@iinet.net.au | http://www.iinet.net.au/~sejones
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