Reflectorites
On Tue, 07 Mar 2000 16:57:26 -0600, Susan Brassfield wrote:
>>>SJ>.. [A horrific example of
>>>>what happens when scientists are captured by a theory which
>>>>they want to believe and ignore the facts.]
>
>>SB>I agree. This, of course, is an excellent illustration of the fact that
>>>people don't choose their sexual orientation. You are born one way and you
>>>are stuck with it! Religious moralizing only causes psychological damage.
>>>Suicide rates among homosexual teens is much higher than among "normal"
>>>adolescents.
>
>[...]
>
>SJ>Susan is here confusing two things: biological maleness (and femaleness)
>>and sexual orientation. The first is in-built *biology* but the second is
>>(apart maybe from some very special cases) a learned *preference*.
SB>ROFL!!! So when did you learn your preference?
By my early teens. I had a very deep (non-sexual) relationship with another
boy. When we broke up, it was like two lovers parting. I came from a
broken home and it would have been easy for me to become a homosexual.
Fortunately, there was a lot of social pressure back then in the 1960's
against homosexuality, and so both he and I became heterosexuals.
>SJ>Homosexuals are being successfully re-oriented to heterosexuality. But
>>sexual reassignment cases like David Reimer aren't being successfully
>>reassigned.
SB>the successful reorientation stories are mostly propaganda.
Nevertheless, I understand there is a large, successful Christian homosexual
reorientation program which has helped thousands of homosexuals. If
Susan wants more details I will try to find them for her.
SB>I've never
>personally talked to any homosexual who would ever consider attempting such
>a thing any more than *I* would attempt a conversion to lesbianism.
That Susan does not personally know any homosexuals who would
consider heterosexual re-orientation, is hardly an argument that there aren't
any.
A quick search on AltaVista turned up the following book by a former
homosexual who was apparently successfully reoriented:
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http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/080105186X/ref=sim_books/103-3906474-6046249
[...]
Setting Love in Order : Hope and Healing for the Homosexual
by Mario Bergner
[...]
List Price: $11.99
Our Price: $9.59
You Save: $2.40 (20%)
[...]
Paperback - 208 pages (January 1995)
Baker Book House; ISBN: 080105186X ; Dimensions (in inches):
0.59 x 8.98 x 6.05
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 29,110
Avg. Customer Review: Number of Reviews: 2
[...]
Editorial Reviews
Synopsis
A former homosexual tells his redemptive story of "healing." With
great vulnerability, Mario Bergner describes his struggle to be free
from what he calls "same-sex ambivalence," and addresses a
controversial, timely issue in a redemptive, biblically sound manner.
[...]
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>SJ>*Being* a homosexual is not a sin in the Bible. *Practicing*
>>homosexuality is.
SB>yeah, yeah, yeah. I've heard this garbage before.
>
>It doesn't begin to explain the consistent campaign of cruelty toward
>homosexuals carried on by the religious right.
If "the religious right" (whoever they are!) is cruel towards homosexuals
(ie. as *people*) then it is acting un-Biblically.
But having personally experienced Susan's distorting prejudice against
Biblical Christians, I would assume that most of what Susan calls "cruelty
toward homosexuals" is in fact condemnation of the *sin* rather than of
the *sinner*.
Steve
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"The solution to Cordelia's dilemma-the promotion of her nothing to a
meaningful something-requires the more extensive revision of conceptual
overhaul. Cordelia's dilemma cannot be resolved from within, for the
existing theory has defined her action as a denial or non-phenomenon. A
different theory must be imported from another context to change
conceptual categories and make her response meaningful. In this sense,
Cordelia's dilemma best illustrates the dynamic interaction of theory and
fact in science. Correction of error cannot always arise from new discovery
within an accepted conceptual system. Sometimes the theory has to
crumble first, and a new framework be adopted, before the crucial facts can
be seen at all." (Gould S.J., "Cordelia's Dilemma", in "Dinosaur in a
Haystack: Reflections in Natural History," [1995], Crown: New York,
1997, reprint, p127)
Stephen E. Jones | sejones@iinet.net.au | http://www.iinet.net.au/~sejones
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