Re: One step nearer to cloning a human being, etc

From: Stephen E. Jones (sejones@iinet.net.au)
Date: Tue Mar 07 2000 - 16:33:47 EST

  • Next message: Steve Clark: "Re: One step nearer to cloning a human being, etc"

    Reflectorites

    On Mon, 06 Mar 2000 11:47:15 -0600, Susan Brassfield wrote:

    >SJ>The responsibility, he believes, rests squarely on the shoulders
    >>of those doctors, especially Dr. Money, who had developed an
    >>international reputation for the "twins case." Despite the apparent
    >>harm it was doing to the Reimer family, Money appeared bent on
    >>seeing it through to the end. "I thought it was very ignorant for
    >>them to think I was no longer a male because my penis was
    >>burned off," Reimer said. "A woman who loses her breasts to cancer
    >>doesn't (become) any less of a woman." ... [A horrific example of
    >>what happens when scientists are captured by a theory which
    >>they want to believe and ignore the facts.]

    SB>I agree. This, of course, is an excellent illustration of the fact that
    >people don't choose their sexual orientation. You are born one way and you
    >are stuck with it! Religious moralizing only causes psychological damage.
    >Suicide rates among homosexual teens is much higher than among "normal"
    >adolescents.

    [...]

     Susan is here confusing two things: biological maleness (and femaleness)
    and sexual orientation. The first is in-built *biology* but the second is
    (apart maybe from some very special cases) a learned *preference*.

    Homosexuals are being successfully re-oriented to heterosexuality. But
    sexual reassignment cases like David Reimer aren't being successfully
    reassigned.

    *Being* a homosexual is not a sin in the Bible. *Practicing* homosexuality
    is. Paul in his first letter to the Corinthian church says that some of the
    congregation were *former* homosexuals (1Cor 6:9-11). The Christian
    response to all sexual sin is exemplified by Jesus in the case of the woman
    caught in adultery: First unconditional forgiveness: "Then neither do I
    condemn you" (Jn 8:11a) ; and second absolute prohibition of continuing
    the sin: "Go now and leave your life of sin." (Jn 8:11b).

    That it is hard for a homosexual to forgo sex with his own gender is
    conceded, but it is equally if not more hard for a paedophile to forgo sex
    with children. The church should (and does) help such people if they want
    to be helped.

    Even if some very rare homosexuals are biologically predisposed to be
    sexually attracted to their own gender, there are probably some murderers
    and rapists who are similarly predisposed to their deviation but that does
    not make it right for them to indulge it.

    But the vast majority of homosexuals are that way because they *choose*
    to be that way. I personally heard on the radio a male leader of the gay
    community in Western Australia answering criticisms that he had married a
    woman. He said that contrary to popular belief among heterosexuals,
    homosexuals do not find it repugnant to have sex with the opposite gender
    like heterosexuals do. He said that he married a woman because he found
    that two men don't get on as well together as a man and a woman!

    None of this should be trivialised as me being "homophobic". I am not
    against homosexuals as *people*, just their sinful *behaviour*. As an
    employer I personally knew several homosexual (male and female) and one
    paedophile (female), members of my staff and I treated them just like
    anyone else. I have in the past stood up in church business meetings as a
    minority of one arguing that unfair laws against homosexuals should be
    repealed or at least made fairer.

    I agree that sections of the Christian church have in the past treated
    homosexuals badly, largely through ignorance. But I know in my former
    conservative evangelical denomination (Baptist) there was a big effort to
    right the wrong by holding seminars addressed by a Christian psychiatrist,
    psychologists and social workers. The attitude towards homosexuality in
    the conservative evangelical church circles that I move in has improved
    markedly in the last 30 years. Once it was common to hear sermons against
    homosexuals. Now it is very uncommon, and when there is, a clear
    distinction is made between the sin (which we are to hate) and the sinner
    (who we are to love).

    I emphatically do not agree that homosexuals should be persecuted but I do
    think they should not be allowed to publicly portray their sexual preference
    as normative or desirable. Social pressure is an important part of being
    human which helps the young find their sexual identity. Apart from it being
    a Biblical sin, a homosexual relationship cannot be as satisfying as a
    heterosexual relationship, *other things being equal*. I therefore believe
    that there should be firm social pressure against homosexuality but
    definitely not persecution.

    Steve

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