Re: Definitions

From: David Bradbury (dabradbury@mediaone.net)
Date: Sat Feb 26 2000 - 22:10:20 EST

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    Bertvan@aol.com wrote:

    > I agree to the confusion over definitions. Personally, I never use the word
    > evolution. My disagreement is with "random mutation and natural selection as
    > an explanation of macro evolution". Nevertheless, even if all definitions
    > were agreed upon, the disagreement between people who argue on both sides of
    > this controversy would be real. Those who accept the possibility of
    > teleology as part of reality and those who don't. I am agnostic about the
    > existence of teleology, and doubt it will ever be demonstrated to the
    > satisfaction of any atheist. I argue on the "creationist" side because I
    > dispute the authority of science to state that teleology does not exist.
    >
    > Bertvan

    Thanks Bert for you comments to my post of 2/26.

    You well reflect the frustration felt by many when we see what should be good,
    solid, information conveying terms relegated to near uselessness by careless, or
    otherwise improper usage. But let's not give up so easily ... at least not until
    we take the opportunity to attempt to correct, or at least expose, past flaws.

    You mention disagreement with .... "random mutation and natural selection as an
    explanation of macro-evolution". This is another regularly encountered and
    similarly faulty (imprecise, ambiguous) definition. While this is an improvement
    over the Brassfield example I cited (inclusion of the word 'random' effectively
    eliminates 'artificial selection') See, we're making progress already. More
    importantly, it clearly fails to differentiate 'evolution' from it opposite,
    'extinction' ... this being a semantic (logical, reasonable, scientific) no-no.

    Your mention of macro-evolution (I added the hyphen as a step towards
    clarification) is jumping a step or two ahead. But indeed as you have
    pin-pointed, macro-evolution is simply a recent, and unnecessary semantic term
    essentially duplicating the meaning for the term 'evolution' most folks have long
    understood and accepted. Namely, the process by which some theoretical simplest
    first single-cell gene pool grew, slowly and mechanistically by the postulated
    mechanism of mutation and natural selection to the exquisitely complex genetic
    information content of present mammalian gene pools.

    We can expect to get into the other hyphenated versions, some obfuscating and
    some helpful, as micro-, theistic-, pseudo-, directed-, etc., etc., but only
    after we settle in on a mutually understood (and acceptable to both evolutionists
    and non-evolutionists) definition for the basic term 'evolution' (or
    'macro-evolution' as synonymously understood).

    In closing, I admire (and share) your "agnostic" approach. In the context of
    this dialog, this neither proposes (nor imposes) any external, non-mechanistic
    influence exists ... or does not exist. It rather expresses the position that a
    physically repeatable/observable phenomenon is more impressive (believable) than
    claims not similarly supportable.

    Now, getting back to basics, what do you think of the following? Is there
    anything here to which you, or other reasonable critics with whom you are
    acquainted, might object?

    EVOLUTION (in the context of high school -college level science curricula): =
    "The postulated process by which new, biologically beneficial, increasingly
    complex genetic code appears and accumulates over time in a pre-existing
    (simpler) gene pool by random mass/energy interactions."

    Do recognize that this is but a second suggested 'draft' definition. Are there
    flaws? Can we improve this further?

    All are invited to participate.



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