Veritas Forum with Phil Johnson

From: Ed.Babinski@furman.edu
Date: Thu Feb 24 2000 - 14:22:21 EST

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    Forwarded from a friend of mine, Tod Montgomery:

    I arrived at UNCA with my copies of two of Johnson's books hoping for some
    autographs (I figured that in my future run-ins with Christians who push
    Johnson's books on me would be more fun if I could not only pull out my
    copies, but SIGNED copies, although to me the autographs actually lower the
    value of the books--but that's another story.)

    As I walked into Lipinsky Auditorium I was overwhelmed by the number of
    people there. I (somewhat pessimistically) hoped that some of the people
    there would be non-Christians like me. There may have been a few, but the
    majority of the people there were obviously there to support Johnson. They
    probably heard about it in church. I perused the very large selection of
    books available for sale, and not one jot or tittle of skeptical or
    critical
    literature was to be found. (Veritas Forum my ass, I thought). Suddenly I
    felt like the mythical Daniel in the lion's den. It took all I had not to
    simply walk out, but I felt that at least one dissenting person should be
    there, and hey, maybe I could even say a few things, who knows? I was
    about
    to inquire as to whether they had a copy of the Age of Reason or the Origin
    of Species, when it was time to go inside and see the circus.

    Johnson's presentation was typical, with the ad-hominem, post hoc, straw
    man, fallacies abounding. And the audience seemed to swallow the whole
    thing hook line and sinker. It's quite a strange and profoundly sad
    feeling
    when you are in a room with 1200 people the majority of whom have not done
    the first thing to educate themselves about the issues at hand beyond
    reading Christian propaganda.

    During Philip Johnson's talk, I took a few notes, and chuckled and sighed a
    lot. I also made sure the couple sitting next to me could see what I was
    writing. My first page was sketchy and consisted of trying to encapsulate
    a
    few boners he committed, but Christ, I can only write so fast. Among those
    things, he put forth the proposition that what is true is what is good. I
    thought "If you only would explore that and take it to its logical
    conclusion, we could all go home", but no such luck. He quoted Thomas
    Jefferson (I don't remember the quote now--damn it), but forgot to point
    out
    that Jefferson was a Deist and would seem simply like an atheist when
    compared to virtually anyone on the room. Johnson said that he hoped that
    his talk would speak to the HEARTS of those present first and to their
    MINDS
    second--a surprisingly candid statement not lost on me, to be sure. He
    went
    on to debunk some of the myths about the Scopes Trial (and in this he
    basically did a good job) but focused on debunking Inherit the Wind, which
    is the only source most of these people had ever encountered. Of course if
    they had read the intro, they would realize that the play and (therefore
    the
    movie) were admitted by the writers to be works of fiction and that Inherit
    the Wind has little or nothing to do with the facts or influence of the
    Scopes case. Of course he went on to say that the liberal media and
    whatnot
    have "held on to this lie" for some time, as if that had any bearing on the
    scientific merit of evolution, (or creationism for that matter). He even
    made the egregious error that scientists believe we are descended from
    monkeys. I leaned over to my companions and whispered "no scientist
    believes that". I got no reaction. He called evolution a pseudoscience
    and
    claimed the fossil record did not support evolution. He got into
    irreducible complexity and Behe's book. He ridiculed the finch beak
    variation studies from the Galapagos. However, the main thrust of his talk
    was that science is blind to the wonders of creation because it simply
    assumes that there is no supernatural and goes from there. He went on and
    on and on about this, telling many half-truths and many more outright lies
    and I spent the rest of the time writing down some questions of my own, as
    we were going to get a chance at the end to ask some. Here are some of
    those that came to me during the presentation.

    Here are some of them: (note-I'm fleshing these out as if I actually had
    picked each one to ask. My notes are more sketchy--more on this later)
    here goes...

    Dr. Johnson, why do you believe that supernatural explanations are better
    than natural ones. After all, we had supernatural explanations for
    thousands of years for countless natural phenomena, including lightning,
    volcanoes, reproduction, growth, fire, stars, planets, earthquakes,
    diseases
    etc. Why are you so sure that your supernatural explanations of the world
    around us are any more credible than those of the ancients who knew nothing
    about these things? Furthermore, if naturalism is so faulty, why has so
    much been successfully explained by it, not to mention the eradication of
    smallpox, cholera, polio and many other diseases and the deep understanding
    of fundamental principles of the universe Also why do so many different
    disciplines point to the veracity of evolution, including molecular
    biology,
    comparative anatomy, genetics, embryology, anthropology, among many others.

    Dr. Johnson, why do you strive to debase science while at the same time
    courting scientific credibility by using scientific sounding arguments to
    make your point? What explanatory power does ID have, other than to say
    "POOF, GOD DID IT" and nothing more?

    Dr. Johnson, if William Paley, whom you quoted, was right in that
    complexity
    requires a designer, how do you reconcile this with the infinitely complex
    mind of a creator? In other words, who or what designed God's infinitely
    complex mind?

    Dr. Johnson, if evolutionary biology can be so easily dismissed by a lawyer
    with no training in the biological sciences, how is it that scientists have
    not seen the error or their ways, and why are your views so ridiculed by
    reputable scientists. Did God set you up to be the butt of a grand, cosmic
    joke?

    Why does your "evidence" always consist of tearing down the evidence in
    favor on evolution? Shouldn't your evidence be positive and stand on its
    own merit?

    There were several more of these, but you get the picture. I also spent
    some time trying to word the question that we had discussed previously in
    such a way that it wouldn't go over the heads of the audience.

    As PJ finished the chairman of the Philosophy Department gave a short talk
    that was supposed to be a rebuttal, but turned out to be insipid, and not
    at
    all incisive. I honestly don't remember what he said, because it didn't
    make any sense. I suspected that Johnson had met with him before the show
    and gave his OK. If not, he might as well have. I thought "where the f---
    is the chair of the Biology department? Christ, I could have done a
    better
    job than the Philosophy guy did."

    Then things started to go downhill from there. Johnson called for
    questions
    from the audience so I thought "here's my chance". Unfortunately, I had to
    make a decision. Should I just go in with the viral DNA question and seem
    to be dodging the issues he raised in his talk, or should I go with
    another?
    I decided to go with both (a terrible mistake as it turns out) and chose
    the
    one at the top of my list above. As I stepped up to the mike I got a
    little
    nervous, and rambled on about 20 seconds too long, so that before I got to
    my second question, Johnson had made some funny faces, making me feel like
    a
    rambling fool. So I DIDN'T GET TO THE VIRAL DNA QUESTION! DAMN!
    I was so frustrated that I could hardly stand up and I didn't follow a
    thing of what he said in response (believe me I tried, but he was just too
    opaque). To this day, I have no idea what the heck he was talking about,
    and I felt pretty bad about the whole thing for a long time.

    During his answer to another person's question Johnson said that Carl Sagan
    was an atheist before, but his opinion is quite different now and
    insinuated
    that he's not very happy in his final resting place. That was more than I
    could take, and after the whole thing was over, I took my books up to be
    signed. And do you know what, the weasel didn't even stop talking to this
    other guy while he signed my books. Didn't even look at me except a
    passing
    glance. At that point I said (rather loudly) that I thought his remark
    about Dr. Sagan had been flip, unkind, uncalled for, and less than should
    be
    expected of someone who claims to be of such high caliber. I added "I
    suppose I should have expected it from someone who writes to a tenth grade
    level and understands science about as well." He didn't like that at all.
    He said "well I could take some lessons from you about being unkind,
    couldn't I?" By this time several people took note and I said "You just
    can't take criticism from people who disagree with you. He was walking
    away
    very quickly and I was left to deal with the people around me, most of whom
    had not heard the entire exchange. One guy pointed out to me in a somewhat
    condescending tone that Johnson's arguments were impeccable and that he'd
    really done a good job on the faulty foundations of science and that
    atheists like me had a lot to lose if we were wrong. I said "how can you
    be
    so sure that I'm an atheist, anyway? Isn't it a bit presumptuous of you to
    make any assumptions about someone's religious belief that you've never
    met?
    He apologized (a bit sheepishly--no pun intended). I said that I wasn't
    about to get into it with him at that moment (my adrenaline was way too
    high
    at that moment for any reasonable semblance of a discussion). But I did
    say
    that I thought it was sad that countless generations of people have cut
    each
    other's throats because they couldn't agree on what was to become of them
    after their throats were cut, and that about summed up Christianity for me.
    He was taken aback and I headed for the door and a quick smoke before
    returning home.

    So I managed not to spend any money and had an interesting time, to say the
    least. Wish I'd thought quicker on my feet, but what the hell.

    Take care,

    Todd Montgomery haleyandtodd@worldnet.att.net



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