Re: non random mutations

From: Huxter4441@aol.com
Date: Mon Feb 21 2000 - 16:39:10 EST

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    In a message dated 2/21/00 9:21:30 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Bertvan@aol.com
    writes:

    <<
     Hi Huxter,
     
     I do not indulge in speculations about God. I am an agnostic. I merely
     argue that when creationists claim God is the designer of mutations, they
    are
     on as firm a ground as materialists who insist mutations are random.

    **** You can claim that all you want to - but is it correct? Mutations are,
    for all intents and purposes, random in nature. There are certainly
    constraints on this, (i.e.,physical ), but that certainly is not equivalent
    to saying 'God did it.'

     Materialists complain that ID proponents would stifle scientific research,
    by
     attributing phenomena to God, rather than search of other explanation.
     Materialists have stifled scientific research for a over a century by
     insisting mutations must be random.

    ***** How is that? Such a matter-of-fact claim must surely have some meat
    behind it. How do you propose that sucha dogmatic belief, if it in fact
    exists, WOULD stifle research? It seems to me that those accepting that
    'dogma' have produced far more productive research than those opposed to it.

    Since "random mutation and natural selection as an explanation of macro
    evolution" became a passionately defended dogma of materialist philosophy,
    biologists have discouraged any search for other explanations.

    **** Why do you think that such a 'dogma' might be 'passionately defended' by
    biologists? Could it be that no alternative explanations are worthy of their
    'passion'?

    They have dogmatically announced that all forms of Lamarckism "have been
    discredited". Proponents of ID, on the other hand, are reluctant to
    accept anything in nature as "random. "Random" is merely an admission of
    ignorance of the process, according to Design theorists .

    **** Most of what design hypothesists say is an admission of ignorance.
    Evolution is based on what we DO know, ID/creationsim on what we DON'T.

      Scientists following an ID philosophy would look for everything to be a
    functional piece of the design.

    **** They would? Can you provide a ref for this?

     Prodded by design proponents, more scientists are now looking for
    explanations other than "random", and I predict they will find examples of
    "use" or "the
     environment" exerting positive pressure for "rational" mutations.

    ***** Thats a good one... "Prodded by design proponants..." Your
    'predictions' are old news - the environment has long been known to influence
    mutation. What is a 'rational' mutation?

       And if mutations are not random, the mutations themselves create
    biological novelty.

    **** Random mutations can do the same.

       Natural selection, also part of the design, would perform the function of
     eliminating "design errors", but I personally doubt Natural Selection is
     capable of "creating" anything.

    **** Persoanl doubts are fine, do you have any personal evidence?
     
     Bertvan >>



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