On Mon, 6 Dec 1999 18:36:23 -0600 (CST), Susan B wrote:
[...]
>>SB>Has anybody ever heard of "The Revised Quote Book" put out
>>>by the Creation Science Foundation of Brisbane, Australia?
>>
>>Since I quoted from it recently in one of my responses to Susan's "Why
>>lie?" post, to the effect that the reason creationists quoted from
>>evolutionists is because they *are* still believers in evolution, clearly I
>>have heard of the RQB and indeed I own a copy of it.
SB>So are you inadvertently answering my question about how you manage to find
>Mayr, Gould, Elderige, etc. quotes which--when lifted out of context--seem
>to be unflattering to evolution?
I did answer Susan's question as follows (with "SJ" added for clarity):
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On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 05:42:37 +0800, Stephen E. Jones wrote:
[...]
>SB>how do you find the quotes you want without reading the book?
>
SJ>I didn't say that I didn't read the book. I said I didn't always read the
>*whole* book.
>
>I find quotes by looking up the topic in the index or in the table of
>contents. Sometimes I read a reference to the item in a journal or
>another book or on one of the lists I am on. But I always try to get the
>original source in order to check the context before using the quote.
>
>SB>Open the book
>>at random? or is there a bibliography that you are working from?
>
SJ>See above.
>
>SB>How do you
>>know which books to buy? did you read an anti-evolutionary journal that says
>>"Ernst Mayr says lots of useful of anti-evolutionary stuff on p. -- and p.
>>-- in The Growth of Biological Thought."
>
SJ>I buy by authors, eg. Gould, Dawkins, Mayr, etc. I also buy by
>references I see in other books and journals above. Often I buy
>anything on an evolutionary topic at secondhand bookshops.
[...]
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SB>I'm somewhat familiar with Mayr's works. His books are huge and turgidly
>written. I would think finding the exact page in one of them that says
>something bad about evolution would be a daunting task. Yet you said you
>always read a page or two before and after a quote so that you can
>understand the context. I asked how you knew which page to read and you
>didn't answer. Are you answering now?
See above. I *did* answer Susan. I can't help it if she doesn't read
my replies, or can't remember what I wrote. I suggest she re-read
my *six* replies totalling 123 Kb on answering Susan's "Why lie?" post,
before she claims that I haven't answered her questions.
Unless Susan has anything genuinely *new* to say on this topic,
I am not prepared to waste any more time on it.
As Cliff Lundberg wrote to Susan:
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On Wed, 24 Nov 1999 00:00:15 -0800, Cliff Lundberg wrote:
[...]
CL>If truth-value were primary to you, you wouldn't speculate about whether
>he's reading books or just magically finding the quotes he uses.
[...]
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Steve
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"Discussions of evolution came to an end primarily because it was obvious
that no progress was being made....When students of other sciences ask us
what is now currently believed about the origin of species we have no clear
answer to give. Faith has given place to agnosticism.... Biological science
has returned to its rightful place, investigation of the structure and
properties of the concrete and visible world. We cannot see how the
differentiation into species came about. Variation of many kinds, often
considerable, we daily witness, but no origin of species.... I have put before
you very frankly the considerations which have made us agnostic as to the
actual mode and processes of evolution. When such confessions are made
the enemies of science see their chance.... Let us then proclaim in precise
and unmistakable language that our faith in evolution is unshaken."
(Bateson W., "Evolutionary Faith and Modern Doubts." An address
delivered to the American Association for the Advancement of Science, 28
December, 1921, Science, vol. LV, p55., in More L.T., "The Dogma of
Evolution", Princeton University Press: Princeton NJ, 1925, p28).
Stephen E. Jones | sejones@iinet.net.au | http://www.iinet.net.au/~sejones
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