Re: The Evolutionist: Liar, Believer In Miracles, King of

Brian D Harper (bharper@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu)
Sat, 07 Nov 1998 23:12:21 -0500

At 06:29 PM 11/7/98 -0700, Kevin wrote:
>Greetings Burgy:
>
>"I'm going to disagree, Kevin. Abiogenesis has to refer to a process, where
>non-living matter combines (somehow) to produce living matter (organisms, if
>you will)."
>
>Alright. First of all, we will need to define "living matter" and
>"non-living matter". Biochemically speaking, "living matter" would include
>biomolecules of all kinds, whereas "non-living matter" would not. This may
>sound rather arbitrary at first, but it makes sense because, whatever
>"living" truely means, you can't have a living organism without
>biomolecules, whereas non-biomolecules have never been known to be involved
>with any living system. Obviously there would have to be some exceptions,
>such as certain inorganic minerals and small organic molecules. These are
>certainly not perfect definitions, but they should be workable.
>
>Next we would need to define "biogenesis" and "abiogenesis". Again,
>biochemically speaking, "biogenesis" is the process by which biomolecules
>are made by biological systems, whether from living or non-living matter is
>irrelevant. As such, "abiogenesis" would be any process by which
>biomolecules are made by non-biological systems, again from either living or
>non-living matter.

But if biomolecules can be made by non-biological systems then
they are misnamed are they not? I propose that your definitions
contain a lurking and subtle vitalism.

>
>"Using that definition, the Miller-Urey experiments qualify only as
>'possible' abiogenetic events. The process involved might -- or might not --
>work in a total abiogenesis situation."
>
>There is good evidence that it can. However, I believe that your definition
>is too narrow, and emphasizes the wrong characteristics. What matters is
>how the biomolecules are made, not what they are made from. Using the
>definitions I propose the Miller-Urey experiments are most definately
>abiogenetic events, as is thermal copolymerization.
>
>Kevin L. O'Brien
>
>
>
Brian Harper
Associate Professor
Applied Mechanics
The Ohio State University

"He who establishes his arguments
by noise and command shows that
reason is weak" -- Montaigne