>
>To me the actual Hebrew undermines the claim made by Henry et al that there
>was no death in the universe prior to the fall. Mankind was offered
>immortality; the animals weren't. Notice that in Romans 5:12 that death
>passed unto all MEN, it doesn't say 'men and animals'.
Romans 5 focuses on man's sin, death, and peace with God. It is Romans 8
that broadens the perspective to include the whole creation:
For the earnest expectation of the creature waits for
the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature
was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by
reason of Him who hath subjected the same in hope,
because the creature itself also shall be delivered
from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty
of the children of God. Romans 8:19-21
And verses 22-23 make that even more clear:
For we know that the whole creation groans and
travails in pain together until now. And not only they,
but we ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the
Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting
for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
>creation of reproductive abilities for the animals argues against a
>deathless world. Why would animals need to reproduce if they weren't going
>to die?
I think He knows why.
It is as easy for God to create 10 billion cattle as two and if
>they weren't going to die, He easily could have produced 10 billion sexless
>cows and been done with it.
But He didn't!
>
>>
>>The possibility of sin was there, and the test (tree), and that was good,
>>even very good, giving choice and freedom to the man and woman. But
>>apparently perfect is too strong a word for it. As you pointed out that
>>word, or at least the first uses of it, is reserved for the perfect Lamb of
>>God (or a sacrificial lamb representing Him), and those who follow Him
>>completely (Gen 6:9;Lev 22:21).
>
>And this implies that the creation, at creation, didn't completely follow
>the PERFECT.
At least, very soon,
the ones with free will chose to try something else.
>
>>
>>The creation, good as it was, I guess will not be really complete until the
>>restoration, the new heavens and new earth in which righteousness dwells (2
>>Peter 3:13).
>
>AMEN.
Karen