On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:25:38 -0500, John E. Rylander wrote:
JR>Stephen, If you ever learn to be much more intellectually careful and
>precise, you will be an effective advocate for your views.
SJ>Let's face it John, the *last thing* you would want is for creationists
>like me to become an effective advocate for our views!
The proof of this is that you dismiss even Phillip Johnson views as mere
rehetoric. If even the most effective advocate for creationist views is
dismissed out of hand, then it follows that for you there *can never* be an
effective advocate for creationist views !
JR>In the meantime, your messages are painful to read.
Well then don't read them! If you continue your increasing complaints
about my posts, I will start addressing my responses to your posts directly
to the Group. That will save you from feeling any obligations that you have
to read them.
JR>So often, -so- often you settle on statements that are rhetorically
>appealing, but just misstate things miserably. I'm afraid this is more of
>the same in that respect.
Thanks for the compliment! I am pleased that you now regard my posts the
the same as you regard Phil Johnson's. I must be hitting the mark!
JR>Aside from misunderstandings and bizarre assertions (-one-
>example: -Christian- evolutionists make "*naturalistic metaphysical
>assumptions*" [your emphasis]), you ask a question that I'll answer:
I marvel that you think this is a "bizarre assertion". It is the *basic
metaphysical assumption* of Theistic Evolutionists on this Reflector
(inlcuding yourself) that God did not intervene supernaturally in nature but
worked solely through natural processes.
JR>What are the main issues between Theistic Evolutionists/Evolutionary
>Creationists on the one hand, and Progressive Creationists/"Theistic
>Realists" on the other?
>
>Here's what comes to my mind:
>
>(1) Is evolutionary theory a -plausible- or even -physically -possible--
>explanation for the development (and perhaps also origin) of all life? ECs:
>typically yes, typically yes*; PCs no, often no.
In practice TE/ECs on this list go further and: a) claim that "evolutionary
theory" *is the only* "explanation for the development...and...origin...of all
life"; and b) critcise creationists who are sceptical of this.
JR>(2) Is it proper to restrict explanations in natural science to natural
>forces and objects? Or to ask it another way, is it IMproper to include
>divine, miraculous intervention -in theories of natural science-? : yes;
>PCs, No (if they consider PC to be a purely scientific theory) or probably
>Yes (if they don't).
This just concedes my whole point. if "ECs" think it is "imroper to include
divine, miraculous intervention -in theories of natural science" then they are
1) making a "naturalistic metaphysical assumptions" about what "science"
is and that God would not use "miraculous intervention" in originating and
developing His living world.
JR>(3) Is it critically important to Xian theology that Adam and Eve (a) be
>the literal first and only biological parents of the entire human race, and
>(b) have no animal ancestry? ECs: -typically- no (but sometimes yes), and
>no; PCs: typically yes, and typically yes.
The above is probably a true statement of differences between PC and EC
generally, but I am not aware of it being a "main issue...between Theistic
Evolutionists/Evolutionary Creationists ...and Progressive
Creationists/"Theistic Realists" on this List. I am AFAIK the only PC/TR
on this list at the moment and I don't claim that "it [is] critically important
to Xian theology that Adam and Eve...be the literal first and only biological
parents of the entire human race, and...have no animal ancestry."
JR>There are other issues too (nature of the fall, general reading of
>Genesis 1-3), but these are the three most important that come to my
>mind right now.
Well you point (2) concedes my main point! Thanks.
Steve
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Stephen E (Steve) Jones ,--_|\ sejones@ibm.net
3 Hawker Avenue / Oz \ senojes@hotmail.com
Warwick 6024 ->*_,--\_/ Phone +61 8 9448 7439
Perth, West Australia v "Test everything." (1Thess 5:21)
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