> I would like to interject a suggestion. Complexity is probably the
> wrong word to use, since randomness is the most complex state possible
> requiring the greatest volume of descriptors). I prefer the term
> information, identified in biological systems by the addition of
> specific new functionality.
I don't think that will move us a whole lot closer to a solution.
I think all these terms are necessarily vague when it comes to
describing biological systems. We really don't have a good handle
on these sorts of questions. For example, if a protease's specificity
changes so that it now hydrolyzes a different substrate, is that
considered a new function or simply a modification of a previously
existing one? If a mutation permits a "new" sugar to be harvested
by a cell for metabolism, is this a new function?
Also, going back the the HbS question... It seems to me that producing
RBCs which reduce the severity of malaria by sickling is a completely
unexpected, new function for a molecule of hemoglobin.
> In this context, Lee Spetner (Not by Chance!) has made a (in my
> opinion) compelling case for the absence for any evidence for the
> addition of new information in the whole history of the study of
> biological organisms.
Interesting. What is his method and metric for quantifying "information"
in this context? For example, I would have thought that the capture
of bacteria as mitochondria and plastids in eukaryotes would result
in the addition of new "information" to the merged organisms (Well,
perhaps that's one of the more dramatic, "one-shot" examples).
> Thus, those who believe that an increase in information can
> result from evolution are in the same boat as those who do not.
I've seen functions arise in bacteria that weren't originally in the
bugs -- Even "irreducibly complex" functions. Chemostats and other
continuous culturing methods are wonderful for this sort of work
in metabolism. Well... provided you can get >1E10 of your organisms
into the growth chamber.*
*(ie. You can forget trying this with gerbils.)
Regards,
Tim Ikeda (tikeda@sprintmail.com)