And let's not forget here that Stephen's persistently made claim is false,
and has been refuted and then simply repeated many times over the months.
For those not oblivious to finer points: no Christian in the discussion, so
far as I know anyway, believes that God -had- to use evolution. That is
(obviously) -not- an issue, let alone the main issue. This is a very basic
point. (Deists, on the other hand, -may- well think that God had no choice,
or no choice once the universe was created.)
The issues are whether or not he -did- use evolution, and if so to what
extent; and whether or not aspects of new suggested investigatory paradigms
(e.g., YEC, or less radically, ID) that involve the causal intervention of
God/extraterrestrial intelligence are (1) true, and (2) scientific rather
than theological or philosophical.
I wonder: will it sink in this time? :^<
Also note that "Theistic Realism" and "Theistic Naturalism" are polemical
terms, useless and incoherent, respectively, philosophically. The proper
philosophical terms are "theism" and "deism", respectively, when they are
distinguished. (Often "theism" is used as a broader term, incorporating
both "deism" and "theism-as-opposed-to-deism", i.e., covering any belief in
God.)
Johnson (and occasionally his defenders) sometimes makes good points. But
it's very unfortunate when they are expressed by him or others with lawyerly
rhetoric, sloppily and polemically. This retards the discussion.
--John
> -----Original Message-----
> From: evolution-owner@udomo2.calvin.edu
> [mailto:evolution-owner@udomo2.calvin.edu]On Behalf Of Glenn R. Morton
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 1998 6:18 PM
> To: Stephen Jones; evolution@calvin.edu
> Subject: Re: God could have worked through natural processes (was
> Evolutionary Information 1/2)
>
>
> At 04:08 PM 8/9/98 +0800, Stephen Jones wrote:
> >The key words are "indubitably true". Johnson (and I for that matter)
> >believe that God COULD have worked "through a natural evolutionary
> >process" but he (and I) do not believe that He MUST have.
> >
> >That is the main difference between Johnson's (and my) Theistic Realist
> >position and Glenn's Theistic Naturalist position.
>
> Steve,
>
> For someone who believes that God COULD have worked through evolution, you
> sure spend a lot of time FIGHTING evolution. How do you know you aren't
> kicking against the goads?
>
>
>
> glenn
>
> Adam, Apes and Anthropology
> Foundation, Fall and Flood
> & lots of creation/evolution information
> http://www.isource.net/~grmorton/dmd.htm
>