Re: More musings on the second law

Bill Hamilton (hamilton@predator.cs.gmr.com)
Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:27:39 -0500

At 4:52 PM -0800 1/22/98, Greg Billock wrote:
>Another example: at certain latitudes (the norther U.S., for instance), ponds
>freeze over every winter. The same ponds thaw every spring. There is an
>entropy change from frozen-pond to thawed-pond. For the purposes of this
>example, it doesn't matter which way is which. The reality is, though, that
>the pond freezes, thaws, freezes, thaws, meaning it first increases its
>entropy,
>then decreases it, and so forth. How can this be? Well, there is this big
>glowing thing in the sky which we call the sun... :-) Energy from the sun
>hits the pond, and means that the pond isn't a closed system, so the second
>law doesn't apply to it. The second law only applies to the pond *AND* the
>sun (which is increasing its entropy so fast it hurts to look at it :-)).
>The same is true for any system on earth--its interaction with that big
>glowing
>thing in the sky can't be overlooked in trying to apply the second law to it.

As you may be aware, one creationist retort to this one is, "How long does
the sun have to shine on a pile of lumber to turn it into a house?" While
I agree with your example, it is the kind of example that is lost on many
creationists because something is missing. What's missing from the
discussion is that the material elements have characteristic behaviors,
described by the laws fo chemistry and physics, that allow them to do
things like freeze, thaw, crystalize, dissolve, etc. The position that
abiogenesis occurred, followed by evolution -- stripped of any atheistic
baggage -- is simply a statement that the properties of matter are such
that when energy is supplied, life can come about. The claim some people
make, that _therefore_ there is no God, does not logically follow, and is
not a scientific claim. One might ask why it is that matter has such
properties. After all, I have a difficult time accepting that mere chance,
operating over any period of time could produce, say, a painting by Georgia
O'Keefe. But that's not a scientific question.

Bill Hamilton
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William E. Hamilton, Jr, Ph.D. | Staff Research Engineer
Chassis and Vehicle Systems | General Motors R&D Center | Warren, MI
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