Original Message Follows:
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evolution-digest Saturday, October 4 1997 Volume 01 : Number 691
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Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 10:36:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Wesley R. Elsberry" <welsberr@inia.tamug.tamu.edu>
Subject: RC Sproul and the shoemaker's last
Paul Carline writes:
[...]
PC>The remarks about theology being possibly a more reliable
PC>source than a physics based on a limited and very speculative
PC>range of hypotheses are my own. I hope I didn't suggest
PC>anywhere that they were part of the thesis being put forward in
PC>the paper I quoted.
It's a simple case of the conclusion following so closely upon the
quotations that it seemed that the quotations must have been seen as
providing a basis or support for them. The juxtaposition of the two
paragraphs that begin, "The simple point that is being made..."
and "The converse of this..." contributes to that impression.
Is there some reason to believe that the physics that exists is
based upon a "limited and very speculative range of hypotheses"?
PC>However, I repeat that the paper both points to the limitations
PC>of a quantum-mechanical understanding of nature and to the
PC>probability that there is a deeper, more fundamental level of
PC>reality beyond the quantum-mechanical - which I would suggest
PC>is not going to be discovered by continuing the conventional
PC>search for fundamental particles.
The paper does point out limitations of QM description.
However, the way I read it the "deeper level" refers to the
basis of their QM/biological duality, not some region
inaccessible to science.
PC>The paper refers to the proposition that there is a creative
PC>process with the character of life at the heart of
PC>reality.
The paper refers to it, but finds in evolutionary and cognitive
biology the means by which to describe such a life or creative
process.
PC>Living systems cannot be described adequately by
PC>physics. Neither physics nor a materialistic biology can
PC>comprehend life and the creation, maintenance and
PC>transformation of form, which obey laws which are
PC>non-physical. This is the level of reality to which theology
PC>points: to the nature of life as a quality of the divine.
My point is that the paper does not suggest that a
non-materialistic stance is necessitated. The means by which
the authors seek to establish their deeper level of description
involves QM, natural selection, and neurobiology. A conclusion
that theology is necessary to a description of the underlying
reality is a repudiation of the content of the paper, not a
consistent result obtained from analysis of it.
Wesley
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 97 00:57:39 EST
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Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 11:13:03 -0600
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Date: Sat, 04 Oct 97 01:36:57 EST
From: Exxxodus@rocketmail.com
Subject: Pirated Video Games Available NOW
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Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 11:13:03 -0600
From: Exxxodus@rocketmail.com
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Date: Sat, 04 Oct 97 02:28:12 EST
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Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 11:13:03 -0600
From: Exxxodus@rocketmail.com
Subject: Playstation, Saturn Games $4.00, Saturn Mod Chips $20, Sony Mod chips
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Newsgroups:
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Message-ID: <875893374.2060@dejanews.com>
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rec.games.video.sega:268244 alt.games.video.nintendo-64:8500
Have all PSX and Saturn games. $4.00 each. Saturn mod chip is $20.
Sony
Mod chip is $15. Installation instructions included with each.
Doctor 64
Cd-Rom with all released games $20. Doctor 64 unit with 256Mbit Ram
$380.
email for order info.
- -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 97 02:34:18 EST
From: Exxxodus@rocketmail.com
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Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 11:13:03 -0600
From: Exxxodus@rocketmail.com
Subject: Playstation, Saturn Games $4.00, Saturn Mod Chips $20, Sony Mod chips
$15. Doctor 64 CD $20, Doctor 64 $380. USA DEALER. Dont buy from mspsx.
Spend it where you will know that you will get what your paying for.
Newsgroups:
rec.games.video.marketplace,rec.games.video.sony,rec.games.video.sega,alt.games.
video.nintendo-64
Message-ID: <875893374.2060@dejanews.com>
Reply-To: exxxodus@rocketmail.com
Organization: Deja News Posting Service
X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Oct 03 15:42:58 1997 GMT
X-Originating-IP-Addr: 157.89.46.1 () proxy [proxy_1 (MSProxy/1.0) for
157.89.16.33]
X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/3.0Gold (Win95; I)
X-Authenticated-Sender: Exxxodus@rocketmail.com
Lines: 10
Xref: rec.games.video.marketplace:145647 rec.games.video.sony:270138
rec.games.video.sega:268244 alt.games.video.nintendo-64:8500
Have all PSX and Saturn games. $4.00 each. Saturn mod chip is $20.
Sony
Mod chip is $15. Installation instructions included with each.
Doctor 64
Cd-Rom with all released games $20. Doctor 64 unit with 256Mbit Ram
$380.
email for order info.
- -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:59:55 -0700
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:09:41 -0400
From: Danette -n- Murray Root <MRoot@mindspring.com>
Subject: [none]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:19:39 -0400
From: Danette -n- Murray Root <MRoot@mindspring.com>
Subject: [none]
Dear Murray,...
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Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:19:56 -0400
From: Danette -n- Murray Root <MRoot@mindspring.com>
Subject: [none]
I would like to know...
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Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:20:34 -0400
From: Danette -n- Murray Root <MRoot@mindspring.com>
Subject: [none]
Why you choose to...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:21:23 -0400
From: Danette -n- Murray Root <MRoot@mindspring.com>
Subject: [none]
Get a new e-mail address...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 21:21:53 -0400
From: Danette -n- Murray Root <MRoot@mindspring.com>
Subject: [none]
And you didn't even tell me about it!?!1
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 22:01:56 -0500
From: grmorton@psyberlink.net (Glenn Morton)
Subject: Oldest Plant species?
I do not know the oldest plant species, yet, but during my vacation, I
visited the late Eocene, Lake Florissant deposit near Florissant, Colorado.
A book I purchased there lists 114 species of plant which have been found in
the deposit. Absolutely none of the fossil plants are found living today.
Harry D. MacGinte states,
"Although woody angiosperms and gymnosperms, as species, seem to
have been remarkably resistant to change with the passage of time,
nevertheless in so long an interval as that since the Oligocene,
approximately 30 million years, there have inevitably been chages of various
degree, some obvious, some more subtle and more difficult to evaluate.
These evolutionary changes add to the difficulty of establishing valid
relationships between the fossils and living plants." "Fossil Plants of the
Florissant Beds, Colorado," (Washington: Carnegie Inst. publ. 599, 1953).
Today it is believed that the beds are of latest Eocene age around 34
million years old. But like the animals I noted in an earlier post, the
fossil plants are also different from anything we have alive today. If, as
many conservative christians believe, the strata are the result of a global
flood, why is almost all eocene life different from anything alive today?
glenn
Foundation, Fall and Flood
http://www.isource.net/~grmorton/dmd.htm
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End of evolution-digest V1 #691
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