Re: Going back...

Russell Stewart (diamond@rt66.com)
Mon, 30 Jun 1997 07:48:26 -0600

Gene Godbold:
>You know what we are really lacking in this discussion is an adequate
>control--one that everybody can agree on. The Christian says that humans
>are rotten because of original sin. Faith in Christ does improve this
>state, but men are still able to sin until the redemption of the body when
>it seems that things will change. Moral improvement does not take place
>without human effort however--God isn't going to fight those battles for
>us.
>
>Since the Church is an organization of humans (whatever else it might be)
>I think that comparing it to other human organizations is a fair
>comparison. When the Church is compared to other human organizations, I
>think it stacks up pretty well in terms of good wrought vs crimes
>committed.

That's not really the issue, though. The issue is whether there is objective
evidence for the Christian moral standard (or, rather, evidence that one
of the many Christian moral standards is the "real" one). And so far, there
hasn't been any.

>And I'm not saying let's not count the atrocities the Church has
>committed, but then, let's not overlook the good that it has done, either.

Nor am I saying that we should overlook the good.

>Russell:
>> This is not to say that Christianity has not helped you, or Jim, or Bill,
>> or numerous other people. But that doesn't mean that it's for everybody.
>
>The only reason we think it *is* for everybody is that Christians think
>that everyone is meant (by God) to be united with Him in Heaven and Jesus
>said that He was "the Way the Truth and the Life" and nobody gets "to the
>Father except by Me (Jesus, the 2nd person of the Trinity)"

And this is one of the biggest problems I have with Christianity -- the
belief (without any objective evidence) that everyone *has* to accept
*your* view of the universe. There are other religions like this as well,
and I have the same problems with them.

>I realize this is an argument from an authority you don't recognize; I'm
>just trying to relate how some of us see it.

OK, I understand that.

>PS. I like your new signature.

Thanks!

_____________________________________________________________
| Russell Stewart |
| http://www.rt66.com/diamond/ |
|_____________________________________________________________|
| Albuquerque, New Mexico | diamond@rt66.com |
|_____________________________|_______________________________|

Tautology
(n) See truism.

Truism
(n) See tautology.