Re: Glenn said. Index fossil and he can back it up

Glenn Morton (grmorton@psyberlink.net)
Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:21:02 -0500

At 01:01 PM 6/23/97, Russell T. Arndts wrote:
>Dear researchers.
>
>Glenn said, "Assume that certain fossils, called index fossils are found
>all over the world in the same vertical order."
>
>WOW, that is exactly the my present question. I have been trying to
>validate that key point.
>
>***Do the rocks in England and the Black Hills have the same index fossils?***
>
>I am looking for a quote or book to verify that fact. At the moment, I
>haven't even been able to get the names of the index fossils used in both,
>not mention comparing the index fossils.
>
>I look forward to the reference.

Short answer. This has been known for a long time and is no longer an active
area of research.

W.J. Arkell, Jurassic Geology of the World,(Edinburgh: Oliver
and Boyd, 1956), p. 8-11

but see below for a full explanation.

>A student and I are working on that exactr problem. If you get a quote for
>me you will save me a lot of wasted time.

No research is wasted time. But as to the fossils between England and the
Black Hills region, some yes. But not the central Black Hills , they are
IGNEOUS and as such contain no fossils as any geologist can tell you.
Lapping up on the edges of the Black Hills some sedimentary rocks are found,
but the central part of those hills are granite.

Now as to index fossils. Trilobites are an index fossil for the Paleozoic.
All over the world, rocks containing trilobites can be followed laterally
(horizontally) and you will find them buried beneath rocks containing
dinosaurs. Dinosaurs, are index fossils for the Mesozoic. All over the
world when you follow a rock layer containing dinosaurs you will eventually
find it buried by rocks containing neither dinosaurs nor trilobites, but
rocks containing particular microscopic animals with peculiar and unique
shapes.

There is only one exception to the invariable order of trilobites, dinosaurs
and those Tertiary microfauna. That is at overthrusts. These are regions
where two sections of the earth have collided which causes one side to ride
up over the top of the other side of the collision. One can sometimes see
this phenomenon in automobile wrecks where one car actually lands on top of
the other. In these regions there is always clear evidence of rock
fractures, and the rock layers lie at all sorts of angles. The rocks are
NOT flat and horizontal in overthrust regions, just like the cars in an auto
wreck are not flat and horizonta.

Now the usual creationist response is to claim that overthrusts are not real
and that certain areas of Montana, Wyoming and other places have normally
deposited material containing the fossils in an out of order sequence. This
can be illustrated by the oldest purveyor of the creationist idea that there
are no overthrusts. George McReady Price wrote:

"In other words, those who first examined and reported on
these various cases thought that the rocks had of course been laid
down as we find them. But afterwards, when it was discovered that
the fossils were in the reverse of the 'invariable' order, they and
their fellow geologists had to invent the theory of thrust faults,
and say that the 'older' rocks must have been lifted up and pushed
over bodily on top of the much 'younger' ones in order to save the
reputation of their 'invariable' world time-table."~George McCready
Price, The Geological Ages Hoax, (New York: Fleming H. Revell,
1931), p. 79

Geologists did not invent the contorted bedding in overthrust regions. In an
overthrust, the rock lying on top is of a different color, mineralogy and
fossil content and is separated from the lower rock by a horizontal crack
which show evidence of rock movement. I think the most laughable example
of a creationist arguing against overthrusts is the picture of Clifford
Burdick at the Empire Mountains. The caption says. "This is Dr. C. L.
Burdick examining the contact line in the Empire Mountains. The evidence
clearly shows the Permian strata directly on top of the Cretaceous. In view
of this, how can the Permian be 150 million years older than the Cretaceous
below it?" (Chittick et al, p. 6)

Burkick's rock hammer is hanging from the horizontal crack separating the
overlying grey Permian limestone from the lower, buff-colored Cretaceous
strata. He is haning his hammer on the fault itself. To every geologist I
have shown this too, they die laughing. It is truly sad because he is
hanging his hammer from what he says doesn't exist.

Now on to Jurassic ammonites. An ammonite is shaped somewhat like a
nautilus. Each species of ammonite comes in all sizes. Each species is
identifiable based upon the suture pattern the animal makes with the shell
as it grows. Each new section of shell is attached to the previous section
by a uniquely shaped squiggly line of suture. Hydrodynamic sorting advocated
by Morris in The Genesis Flood, would lead one to expect that all the larger
ammonites would be buried deeper than the smaller ones. Yet what we find is
that the ammonites are sorted NOT based upon size but based upon SUTURE
pattern. Nearly world wide one has a vertical succession of ammonite suture
patterns. Each suture pattern is given a species name here are the names
from Europe vertically.

Standard Stages and Ammonite zones of the Jurassic of NW Europe.

Upper Jurassic

Portlandian Titanites giganteus
Glaucolithites gorei
Zaraiskites albani

Kimeridgian Pavolvia pallasioides
Pavolvia rotunda
Pectinatites pectinatus
Subplanites wheatleyensis
Subplanites spp.
Gravesia gigas
Gravesia gravesiana
Aulacostephanus pseudomutabilis
Rasenia mutabilis
Rasenia cymodoce
Pictonia baylei

Oxfordian Ringsteadia pseudocordata
Decipia decipiens
Perisphinctes cautisnigrae
Perisphinctes plicatilis
Cardioceras cordatum
Quenstedtoceras mariae

Middle Jurassic

Callovian Quenstedtoceras lamberti
Peltoceras athleta
Erymnoceras coronatum
Kosmoceras jason
Sigaloceras calloviense
Proplanulites koenigi
Macrocephalites macrocephalus

Bathonian Clydoniceras discus
Oppelia aspidoides
Tulites subcontractus
Gracilisphinctes progracilis
Zigzagiceras zigzag

Bajocian Parkinsonia parkinsoni
Garantiana garantiana
Strenoceras subfurcatum
Stephanoceras humphriesianum
Otoites sauzei
Sonninia sowerbyi
Ludwigia murchisonae
Tmetoceras scissum
Leioceras opalinum

Lower Jurassic

Toarcian Lytoceras jurense
Hildoceras bifrons
Harpoceras falcifer
Dactylioceras tenuicostatum

Pliensbachian Pleuroceras spinatum
Amaltheus margaritatus
Prodactylioceras davoei
Tragophylloceras ibex
Uptonia jamesoni

Sinemurian Echioceras raricostatum
Oxynoticeras oxynotum
Asteroceras obtusum
Euasteroceras turneri
Arnioceras semicostatum
Arietites bucklanidi

Hettangian Schlotheimia angulata
Psiloceras planorbis

~W.J. Arkell, Jurassic Geology of the World,(Edinburgh: Oliver
and Boyd, 1956), p. 10-11

"From the Hettangian up to the Middle Kimeridgian these stages
can be recognized all over the world, but after that the scheme
breaks down owing to regional differentiation of faunas." IBID p.
8

To have the flood sort these things based upon suture patterns is like
asking the flood to sort red Jelly Belly jelly beans from blue ones.

Not every ammonite goes entirely around the world. But enough go far
enough to allow other species in other continents to be used for ammonite
zonation on other continents. The Sinemurian Oxynoticeras oxynotum is found
in Europe and Mexico (Imlay) Arkell (p. 608) gives regions over the earth
that the various families of ammonites are found. The Lowest most Jurassic
ammonites, listed in the Hettangian extend from Alaska to South America and
over most of Europe and to New Zealand. The Sinemurian ammonites have a
similar range except for New Zealand. The Pliensbachian extend from
northern China to Indonesia across Eurasia and North and South America.

other index fossils:

ordovician brachiopods and Trilobite fauna are identical with that of Norway
see "Ordovician brachiopods form Norway", GS Research, 1971, p. a137.

Base of Cambrian in US is marked by the appearance of Olenellus trilobites.
No species of Olenellus is found above the Lower Cambrian. see Charles
Schuchert and Carl O. Dunbar, Textbook of Geology 1933, p. 122-123.
These are found in europe also. Archibald Geikie, Text Book of Geology II
1903, p. 883) I include these old references to show how far behind the
geological times most christian apologists are in dealing with these issues.
In Sweden: Geike p. 926

In England and Wales: Dorothy H. Rayner, The Stratigraphy of the British
Isles 1967, p. 51-52

In Washington, Idaho, and Utah. C. Lochman-Balk, The Cambrian System,
Geologic Atlas of the Rocky Mountain Region, 1972 (This is a huge book about
4 x 3 feet)

This should be enough for now.

references

W.J. Arkell, Jurassic Geology of the World,(Edinburgh: Oliver
and Boyd, 1956)

Donald Chittick et al, in The World and Time, (Creation Science Research
Center, 1971)

Ralph Imlay, Correlation of the Jurassic Formations of North America, Bull.
GSA 63:953-992 Sept 1952

>
>
>

glenn

Foundation, Fall and Flood
http://www.isource.net/~grmorton/dmd.htm