Re: john disects your message!:mutations and reproduction

Pim van Meurs (entheta@eskimo.com)
Thu, 19 Jun 1997 21:22:50 -0400

JQL---Natural selection could only work on previous miracles. Think of
the
most 'simple' organ, now try to conceive it's formation from random. The
assumption is that natural selection promotes those genomes who have
advantageous phenotypes. This means that these structures must evolve to
the extent were they are expressed and function before they can be
'selected'.

Natural selection does not require miracles to work on. You are requiring
instance lungs/organs but this is not necessarily how evolution works. You
are correct that the intermediate steps need to have advantages or at
least be neutral.

JQ: I dont think that it's even remotely possible for even the most
simple or
organ or tissue in it's most simple form to be formed from total random.

It merely requires the right mutations though.

JQ: I guess the root of my point goes back to this, natural selection
would
have to have something to work with before it can work. This goes back to
my point reguarding random mutations, they have never been shown to form
anything new that's usefull.

And that's where you are incorrect. Sickle cell anemia for instance is an
example. In Northern Italy there is a village in which cholesterol
resistance is high, I believe it was traced down to a point mutation.

JQ: One does not need a lab to observe the effects of random mutations.
The
Chernobyl effects are still going on today. Children have been born with
missing organs, very small or large arms or legs, retardation, cancer, not
to mention the many herds of live stock and all of thier birth defects. I
really dont think that selectively changing an animals DNA has any bearing
on natural selection, evolution or random mutations.

But mutations from radiation effects are hardly representative. I still
believe you are confusing natural selection which is not affected by DNA
manipulation or mutation. There are some great examples of animals placed
under some environmental pressure and adapt to it. The ones which
developed advantageous mutations survived.