Re: logic makes a comeback

Russell Stewart (diamond@rt66.com)
Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:19:28 -0600

At 12:19 PM 6/12/97 +1000, you wrote:
>Peter Grice>>
>>>I would go so far as to say that by the Christian Theist CONSISTENT
>>>worldview, an "objective, universal, eternal" moral standard exists, and by
>>>the Atheist CONSISTENT (that is, taken to its logical conclusion)
>>>worldview, the moral standard is subjective. It comes down to his or her
>>>opinion.
>
>Russell Stewart>>
>>And it also comes down to empathy, a vital factor which you and everyone
>>else conveniently ignore. It should be blindingly obvious that an empathy-
>>based moral system *works*.
>
>I include empathy when I say 'opinion.' Empathy is feelings-based, and how
>we act upon empathy is logic-based.

Well, in that case, Christian morality also comes down to one's opinion,
because belief in God (and a desire to follow His will) is also feelings-
based.

>Feelings are subjective. You're
>speaking about an inner sense of morality which we do indeed have, a sense
>of right and wrong, of fairness - conscience if you will. But it's
>intangible.

I never said it wasn't. But that's irrelevant -- it's still there, and it
still works.

>We can't agree on everything - things such as capital
>punishment, abortion, euthenasia and human cloning to name just a few.

And Christians can't agree on everything either. If agreeing on everything
is your standard for an acceptable moral standard, then nothing passes.

>So
>it *works* inwardly for the individual sure enough, at least to our
>satisfaction. Yet we find disagreement when we compare our moral standard
>to that of others, as I've pointed out. I might feel empathy towards a
>family whose pet cat had just been run over and killed, but another person
>might think it humorous. The empathy-based system is subjective because
>the standard comes from within the individual.

Which is the same reason that the Christian system is subjective -- because
that standard (one's belief in God and one's interpretation of God's desires)
also comes from within the individual. I know this, because I know many
people who are devout Christians, and they all have their own interpretation
of what that means.

>Now before you respond to this in the manner you have so many times in the
>past (by turning it on its head and charging the Christian theist with the
>same thing),

Too late. I will always hold my opponents to the same standard that they
hold me.

>let me make this point to qualify: An atheist cannot point to
>anything within their own worldview that is a transcendent and objective
>standard of morality, whereas a Christian theist can.

Wrong. A Christian theist can point to something that *they think* is
a transcendent and objective standard of morality. The trouble is, another
Christian will have another morality (it may differ slightly or drastically)
that *they* think is transcendent and objective.

_____________________________________________________________
| Russell Stewart |
| http://www.rt66.com/diamond/ |
|_____________________________________________________________|
| Albuquerque, New Mexico | diamond@rt66.com |
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2 + 2 = 5, for very large values of 2.