Re: Religion and Inner States

Jim Bell (70672.1241@CompuServe.COM)
19 Jan 97 16:20:51 EST

Glenn writes:

<<By this definition, the burial of the dead with grave goods, which
Neanderthal engaged in, is evidence of spirituality. Look at all this evidence
for religion prior to theadvent of shaman art, Jim.>>

Your older citations notwithstanding, Shreve points out: "New looks at old
evidence were suggesting that the Neandertals left no unambiguous trace of
ritual activities, circular or otherwise." [p. 91]

Shaman art is unambiguous. Neandertal "evidence" is questionable.

Leakey agrees with me about the confluence of recent and sudden advancements.
Quoting Randall White, Leakey lists the sudden, Upper Paleolithic appearance
of:

- Refined burials
- Artistic expression
- Technological innovation
- Regional cultural differences
- Long distance contacts

All in support of the sudden appearance of complex, articulate language, BTW.

The gulf between modern man and Neandertal is astounding. And recent.

<< And you don't have to pay attention to art older than 33,000 years ago if
you don't want to. That is most assuredly your perogative.>>

Shaman-art is recent. And what "art" there is before this is the subject of
"philosophical" debate. What is art? No debate about shaman-art, though.

<<So what exactly is wrong with my philosophy? What do you think my philosophy
is?>>

You're straining to make weak data fit your theory, IMO.

<< Birds don't make tools with which to make other tools.>>

So? They make tools.

<<Birds don't make tools(instruments) with which to make music.>>

So? They sing.

<<Birds don't make artistic images of objects.>>

So? They decorate their homes.

Oh, wait a minute! You're saying there is a qualitative difference between
outer manifestations of the inner lives of birds and humans.

All right. I am saying there is a qualitative difference between the outer
manifestations of the inner lives of man and Neanderthal.

Under your own standard, I win. Sauce for the goose, pal...

Jim