[I wrote]
> > As I alluded to above, ID *does* require an Intelligent Designer, if
> > you are interested in life in the universe as a whole: where did the
> > intelligent designers of life on this planet come from, after all?
> > One would hope they were intelligently designed themselves, right?
> > And how about *those* designers? This regress can only stop in some
> > sort of First Cause (First Designer?) that we would probably call God.
> > The question of who designed God would probably be answered that
> > God designed God, right?
>
> To debate whether "God designed God" presumes that God exists in time,
> and hence in space due to the space-time linkage. To be designed
> requires the element of time, that is, before being designed the
> item did not exist. This line of reasoning makes no sense when
> speaking of something (God) which doesn't exist is either time or
> space. Thus, any questions regarding "when" God was created are
> illogical questions.
>
> Our minds have very little ability to ponder issues that exist
> outside of our only domain of space and time. We can easily stop
> time, or permutate space and time, but thinking about things in
> neither space nor time becomes quickly futile.
I'm not sure the discussion of divine timelessness is appropriate for
this mailing list. The idea I was hoping to convey was that the
chain of designers must culminate in a self-designing designer, or
pre-existing designer, or go on forever. Since our universe has
a finite history, this option rapidly becomes a problem, leaving ID
people with the prediction that something we'd probably call 'God'
exists, and is responsible for the design in the universe, whether
they like it or not. (From what I understand, most like it just fine.)
This raises (at least for me) another question about ID: how is the
presence of *bad* design explained? i.e. sub-optimal design, Rube
Goldbergish design, etc. If all design is ultimately to be traced
back to God, the existence of any bad design in the universe is a
troubling portent.
-Greg