>At 08:29 PM 11/24/96, Glenn wrote:
>
>>There has been much talk about biological irreducibly complex systems on th
>ese lists of late. Let me through this out.
>>
>
>[ommitted much talk about biological irreducibly complex systems] :)
>
>>
>>What this proves to me is that the design people are absolutely correct.
> This
>>extremely complex economy was designed by some one. It is irreducibly
> complex;
>>remove one part and the whole crumbles. There is absolutely no way that th
>e
>>economy could have arisen gradually from a simple hunter-gatherer society.
>>
>>Now we just need to decide who did the designing.
>>
>
>This is a very interesting example. Glenn, can I assume that your
>conclusion is stated tongue in cheek, or am I sarcasm impaired :)?
>
Absolutely. My highest level of sarcasm was turned on at the moment I wrote
that sentence. Although if there is an economic designer, I want to aske him
why he didn't design me to be Bill Gates. I have two kids in college and
could use some of his money :-)
It is ridiculous to consider the economic system to have been designed by some
single designer who thought out all the interactions. Yet, this system is
IRREDUCIBLY COMPLEX. Consider what would happen if both of the factories which
make computer memory chips were to burn down at the same time. As I
understand it there are only two of them in the entire world. A couple of
years ago, one of them wsa destroyed by fire and computer chip prices
skyrocketed.
Or even better, consider what happened to New York City when they tried to do
without the lowliest of jobs, the trashman. The city was nearly brought to its
knees.
>It seems to me that you've given an example of an irreducibly complex
>system that is clearly not designed in the way design is used by anyone
>on this reflector, whether they be special creationist, progressive creation
>ist, theistic evolutionist, or evolutionary creationist.
>
The economy is a self-organizing event. It has gone from simple to complex
and in that sense has done something that Creationists say is against the
second law of thermodynamics. Yet by taking energy from the sun in the form of
wood, coal, oil etc. mankind has fueled the economic engine. In fact, the
entropy of the universe has been greatly increased by the expansion of our
economic system. The entropy increases in the universe by causing the
emission of huge amounts of thermal and other electromagnetic radiation.
In the lower Paleolithic most objects were traded or obtained from no more
than 5 km from the site at which they were found. By 300,000 years ago or so,
objects were obtained from up to 25 km distant. Neanderthal traded objects
with peoples up to 200 km away. By the last of the Paleolithic, the
Magdalenian times, trade took place over distances of up to 700-1000
kilometers. By Roman times trade with the Spice Islands for pepper was carried
out. That is a distance of several thousand kilometers.
By contrast, the farthest that a chimpanzee has been observed to carry a tool
is around half a kilometer. So even in the Lower Paleolithic the procurement
of material was from distances farther than the apes do it.
[snip]
>Great example Glenn !
thanks.
glenn
Foundation,Fall and Flood
http://members.gnn.com/GRMorton/dmd.htm