>I agree that there is a lot more that must be done before you can say the guy
>was murdered. But there are objective forensic criteria which can be
>described. This is what I have never seen from the ID group, a list of
>objective criteria which all agree proves design.
Those criteria will be on the table for discussion at the November
Mere Creation conference at Biola.
>In the case of the folding protein, there are a trillion+ ways to fold the
>protein and yet it folds so the interconnecting parts are able to function
>appropriately. This is what the claim is about complexity in living systems,
>the parts must all interact in order to have life and this must be due to
>design. I see little difference in the claims.
Here's a difference:
1. We observe protein folding.
2. We do not observe abiogenesis.
>>Proteins fold. That's a fact. The problem lies not with proteins folding
>> -- organisms do that with aplomb -- but with our *theories* about protein
>>folding. I fully expect the theoretical problem of protein folding to be
>>solved, because there exists an observational reality right in front of us:
>>proteins fold.
>Let me rephrase the first paragraph above
>Cells are here. That's a fact. The problem lies not with genesis of cellular
>life -- organisms do that with aplomb -- but with our *theories* about the
>genesis of cellular life. I fully expect the theoretical problem of the origin
>of life to be solved, because there exists an observational reality right in
>front of us: cells are here.
>This is the line of reasoning of evolutionists defending the origin of life.
>Why is this line of reasoning applied to protein folding acceptable but
>unacceptable when applied to the origin of life?
You're trading on an equivocation, Glenn. The "genesis of cellular life"
can mean either reproduction, which we observe, or abiogenesis, which
we do not. "Cells are here" does not establish that abiogenesis occurred,
anymore than "Don Quixote is here" establishes that a tray of type spilled
in a printer's shop in Barcelona and happened to self-organize into a novel.
Protein folding and abiogenesis are both unsolved theoretical problems.
In the former case, however, we at least have observations to work with.
That's it for me on this topic.
Paul Nelson