On Fri, 19 Jul 1996 11:49:24 -0400 (EDT), lhaarsma@OPAL.TUFTS.EDU wrote:
LH>I've got a question for you, Steve. I your discussion with
>Nicholas Matzke regarding birds, dinos, and lizards, you seemed to
>come to agreement on at least this point: There are a number of
>late dino species with a few "bird" characteristics, and there are a
>number of early birds with many "dino" chacteristics; however, these
>(known) species do NOT clearly form an ancestral sequence. Is that
>accurate?
You are right re "a number of late dino species with a few `bird'
characteristics" but not about "a number of early birds with many
`dino'. AFAIK we only discussed *one* bird species Archaeopteryx. I
am not sure if other early birds have "dino" features, or if they do,
whether we disussed them. But I do concede that Archaeopteryx has
some "many `dino' chacteristics".
LH>I'm guessing that you would argue that some of the changes
>necessary to go from dinos to birds (feathers, beaks, hips,
>breastbones, etc.) are non-trivial (mutationally), and would
>require "supernatural intervention at strategic points." Is that
>accurate?
No. I would need to consider each feature on its merits. It may be
that "beaks" are easy to develop by an extension of the palette and I
note that octopi, dinosaurs, platypi, and of course birds all
developed beaks. I am interested in the *first appearance* of a
feature, as this represents the first expression of a new
"sub-routine" in the genetic code. So if "feathers" first appeared
in Archaeopteryx, then that is where I would assume (not "require")
"supernatural intervention" at strategic points." If it is later
found that an earlier reptile had a feather, then I would assume that
is where the potential "supernatural intervention" occurred in a
recoding of the genetic code:
"It would seem more reasonable to suppose that the DNA of the cells
had been recoded for Homo sapiens at least. This would explain the
common unity of Adam's cells with all other life. It would also
explain the existence of specializations in the various earlier types
of men, for it is these specializations which were not passed on to
the other types which make anthropologists think that they could not
be genetically linked in a linear fashion. When we look at the
fossil record of plants and animals we see a similar picture. First
we see this in some of the main divisions of life: Plants, Marine
Invertebrates (without backbone), Marine Vertebrates, reptiles, birds
and land animals and mammals. We also see this in the fact that the
first appearance of most types of animals (phyla) appear
comparatively suddenly, and together, 600 million years ago in the
Cambrian era. This last point holds good even if the single-celled
fossil algae, 2,000 million years old, does prove to be real and not
what is called a pseudomorph. The fossil algae were discovered in
the Canadian Gun Flint. The appearance of all the major
invertebrates in the Cambrian represents what has been called an
explosion of evolution. If cellular life was already in existence it
would be better described as a recoding of the cell for all the
phyla. If however the cell was not in existence before then, it
would represent the first coding. In any case it relates with Gen.
1:20 "Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures." God is
represented as speaking or placing the code within marine life. Next
major recoding would be in the appearance of backboned fishes. Where
is no fossil record of what phyla gave rise to the vertebrates.
Prior to their appearance thousands of fossils of every other branch
of the animal kingdom have been preserved, but there is not one
intermediate form. This sudden appearance of a radically new kind of
animal, but with the basic cell-mechanism, has so far not been
explained satisfactorily by either atheist or theist. A theory of
recording would solve the difficulties of this major advance. Then
the extensive changes embodied between cold-blooded egg-laying
reptiles and warm-blooded placental mammals, would require a major
recoding, unexplained satisfactorily by biologists. The remarkable
mechanics of flight in birds would be another major recoding. It is
a very clumsy suggestion of some that feathers, with their elaborate
interlocking device, were a development from scales. Finally, when
man is created, the speech of God is again referred to: "Let us make
man in our own image." The two sides to man's nature are distinct.
His body comes from the earth like the animals, but his life, psyche,
comes from God's breath." (Pearce E.K.V., "Who Was Adam?",
Paternoster: Exeter, 1969, p129)
LH>Now here's the question: Suppose several late dino and several
>early bird species have a certain "bird" characteristic (e.g.
>beaks), but these species do not form an ancestral chain, would this
>require God to perform the same supernatural intervention at several
>different strategic points?
"Essentia non sunt multipicanda praeter necessitatem" (William of
Occam)! :-) I would assume that only *one* "supernatural
intervention" would be needed at *one* "strategic point" for the
first appearance each new feature. One recoded, the code could
remain dormant in the genome until needed again.
BTW, I assume that birds and *reptiles* do "form an ancestral chain".
I do not necessarily assume that birds and *dinosdaurs* "form an
ancestral chain". I certainly do not believe that late dinosouars
like Ornithomimus which developed a beak throws any light on the
origin of birds.
LH>Wondering where you're going with this....
Hope I didn't disappoint! :-)
God bless.
Steve
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