I'm new here, having subscribed at about the same time this thread started.
As a non-technical person (I'm a CPA), I intend mainly to lurk, but I
would like to thank the participants for some helpful lessons in both logic
and ethics, and especially for the civility with which they conducted the
debate. Having hung around talk.origins for awhile, I can truly
appreciate their examples of mutual respect.
Dallas Willard has written that the philosophical atheist is living in an
"ontologically haunted universe." I now also see that the philosophical
naturalist is living in a "cosmologically haunted universe," with echoes of
Pascal's Wager ringing like a distant alarm in his mind.
Reflecting on some of Tim's responses, I was further impressed that that a
person cannot, *CAN NOT* be converted to theism by either evidence or logic
without some level of divine intervention (John 6:44, 2 Cor 4:4, etc.).
This was evident in the extreme nature of the miracles that Tim said he
would accept as significant theistic evidence. It called to mind a story
told by, I think, John Morris (who I cite although I am not a YEC). As a
grad student discussing creation/evolution with one of his anti-theistic
geology professors, Morris asked, "What would you do if you knew,
incontrovertibly, that the Genesis creation account was literally true?"
The professor responded to the effect that "Even knowing this, as a
scientist, I would consider it my intellectual duty to try to disprove it."
Talk about full disclosure!
I was also reminded of a taped debate between William Lane Craig and Frank
Zindler in which Zindler cited as significant evidence against God's
existence, the fact that God didn't strike him (Zindler) dead on the spot.
The fact that God permits skeptics to continue in their skepticism is
evidence for His patience and His love for all mankind, not for His
nonexistence. I believe that the divine intervention I referred to above
(illumination) generally occurs when God sees that a person is genuinely
seeking Truth. Because of this, and because of Tim's obvious decency and
intellectual integrity, I think his days as a skeptic may be numbered; at
least, I hope so.
Thanks again, gentlemen, for educating me.
Chuck
-------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Warman
cwarman@sol.wf.net
"The abdication of Belief / Makes the Behavior small."
--- Emily Dickinson