On Mon, 9 Oct 1995 22:03:39 -0400 Glenn wrote:
GM>I changed the thread title.
>Stephen Jones outlined 3 ways to view the flood in the scripture..
>The second one was:
SJ>2. GRAMMATICO-HISTORICAL LITERAL: Local flood. "earth" means
>"land",ie. known world of Noah. May have been anthropologically
>universal.
GM>The Hebrew word "eretz" is validly translated "land" elsewhere in
scripture, such as when God told Abram to get out of his "eretz".
Thus if the writer of Genesis 6-9 meant "land" rather than "earth"
the local flood can also be viewed as a literal event. This
possibility should be mentioned in your first division.
No. The second division is still "Literal", but it interprets
scripture "grammatico", ie. by considering all uses of the words, in
their "historical" context. Perhaps Glenn is uncomfortable with this,
because in embracing a local Flood, he has already had to re-interpret
scripture the way the ancient human author saw things, not necessarily
the way we see things in the 20th century.
>Stephen wrote:
SJ>1. The Bible gives the primary cause of the Flood as rain falling
>upon the earth "forty days and forty nights" (Gn 7:4,12) In Glenn's
>model the primary cause is the Mediterranean Sea breaking its dam at
>the Straits of Gibraltar.<<
GM>Actually it is rather interesting that two events are mentioned as
>being the cause of the flood. Genesis 7:11 states: "In the six
>hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second
>month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth,and
>the floodgates of the heavens were opened."NIV
GM>Stephen, it clearly identifies two causes not one.
That's what "*primary* cause" means "two causes not one"! :-)
GM>In my model of the flood, the dam at Gibraltar breaks first (just
>as the Biblical description says)
Unfortunately for Glenn, the Bible says nothing about a "dam". The
Heb. word rendered "fountain", "ma'yan", does not mean a dam, but an
undergound spring or well:
"4599. ma'yan, mah-yawn'; or ma'yenow (Psa. 114 : 8), ú mah-yen-o';
or (fem.) ma'yanah, mah-yaw-naw'; from H5869 (as a denom. in the
sense of a spring); a fountain (also collect.), ú fig. a source (of
satisfaction):--fountain, spring, well." (Strong's Hebrew-Greek
Dictionary)
Here are ALL its occurrences in the Bible (NIV), outside of the Flood
account, grouped under its shade of meaning:
1. Spring:
"From the hilltop the boundary headed toward the spring of the waters
of Nephtoah..." (Josh 15:9); "...the boundary came out at the spring
of the waters of Nephtoah" (Josh 18:15); "Ahab had said to Obadiah,
`Go through the land to all the springs and valleys. Maybe we can
find some grass to keep the horses and mules alive...' " (1Ki 18:5);
"You will overthrow every fortified city and every major town. You
will cut down every good tree, stop up all the springs..." (2Ki
3:19); "They destroyed the towns, and each man threw a stone on every
good field until it was covered. They stopped up all the springs..."
(2Ki 3:25); "As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a
place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools." (Ps
84:6); "He makes springs pour water into the ravines; it flows between
the mountains." (Ps 104:10); "who turned the rock into a pool, the
hard rock into springs of water." (Ps 114:8); "Should your springs
overflow in the streets, your streams of water in the public squares?"
(Pr 5:16); "When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there
were no springs abounding with water;" (Pr 8:24); "I will make rivers
flow on barren heights, and springs within the valleys. I will turn
the desert into pools of water, and the parched ground into springs."
(Isa 41:18); "...An east wind from the LORD will come, blowing in from
the desert; his spring will fail and his well dry up..." (Hos 13:15)
2. Stream (fed by spring):
"A large force of men assembled, and they blocked all the
springs and the stream that flowed through the land. `Why should the
kings of Assyria come and find plenty of water?' they said." (2Chr
32:4); "It was you who opened up springs and streams; you dried up the
ever flowing rivers." (Ps 74:15);
3. Cistern, Well (built over spring):
"A spring, however, or a cistern for collecting water remains
clean..." (Lev 11:36); "Like a muddied spring or a polluted well is a
righteous man who gives way to the wicked." (Pr 25:26); "With joy you
will draw water from the wells of salvation." (Isa 12:3)
3. Fountain:
"As they make music they will sing, "All my fountains are in you."
(Ps 87:7); "You are a garden locked up, my sister, my bride; you are a
spring enclosed, a sealed fountain." (SS 4:12); "You are a garden
fountain, a well of flowing water streaming down from Lebanon." (SS
4:15); "In that day the mountains will drip new wine, and the hills
will flow with milk; all the ravines of Judah will run with water. A
fountain will flow out of the Lord's house and will water the valley
of acacias." (Joel 3:18).
The constant feature of all these uses of ma'yan is subterranean
water coming to the surface. There is nothing in this that remotely
resembles a "dam" holding back surface water.
[continued]
God bless.
Stephen
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