BH> I have been thinking a lot about this wrt my previous musings about the
> probability argument, and especially my contention that the observation
> of order implies natural law. So, let me give a few speculative ideas.
>
> Suppose that theistic evolution, as you define it above, is true. Now,
> let's further suppose that God's subtle guidance occurred according to
> a plan and not haphazardly according to whim. If God's guidance is
> according to a plan, then it is reasonable to say that it will be
> orderly, non-random. Why could we not then attribute the observation
> of these orderly events in natural history as being due to natural law, i.e.
> how could one distinguish between the orderly inactment of subtle
> guidance and natural law?
If each natural law was "independent" from other natural laws, then God's
orderly inactment of subtle guidance would be appear to be just another
natural law. (Or perhaps it would _rightly_ be called a "natural law.")
However, in principle at least, natural laws in "higher order" disciplines
are derivable from natural laws in the more "basic" disciplines. (The
laws of chemistry are in principle derived from physics, cellular biology
from the laws of chemistry, etc.) (Hey, I know that's a controversial
point, but please bear with me for the sake of argument. ;-) Thus, in
principle, God's subtle "guidance" of evolutionary mechanisms according to
a plan MIGHT be detectable as something _besides_ "natural law" --- as
some principle operating in the natural world IN ADDITION TO natural law.
If creation "lacks the capacity" for macroevolution (e.g. abiogenesis,
development of higher taxa, biological novelty) WITHOUT God's "guidance,"
then God's guidance of biological history WILL be discerned as something
besides natural law.
On the other hand, your speculations may be correct. Perhaps the basic
biological forms, as we see them expressed today --- along with the
various evolutionary pathways connecting them --- are built into "genomic
phase space" by the carefully designed laws of nature. In that case, God
would, from the begining, know the final result of evolution, without the
need for "subtle tinkering," as you put it.
Between these two possibilities, I see a third. The possibility for
macroevolution, biological novelty, and a richly diverse developing
ecology IS inherent within "genomic phase space." However, the final
result of this process is far from certain. The POSSIBILITIES for
producing the biological forms seen today are there within the ordinary
functioning of natural law; however, it was by no means CERTAIN that
today's forms would eventually be produced --- although SOMETHING
interesting certainly would be produced. This third possibility allows
both for the "functional integrity" of creation (to use Howard Van Till's
term), and also for God's guidance of that process, throughout history, in
a meaningful way.
BH> My personal distinction between deism and theism has primarily to do with
> two things (a) is God a personal God who cares about his creation and
> (b) did things occur according to a plan, i.e. did God only set up
> natural law as some kind of "experiment" to see what would pop out when
> its all done. This requires only natural law and not fine tuning.
> In other words, the important point is that "natural" history is not
> an accident, it happens according to plan and it doesn't seem to me to
> be particularly important how the plan was executed. Getting back to
> Goodwin and self-organiztion, I take the existence of generic forms
> (if indeed they do exist) to be evidence of purpose, evidence of a plan.
>
> As I said above, I think it would be almost impossible to distinguish
> theistic and deistic evolution based on scientific observations. From
> a theological point of view, the main point for me is "mindful intention"
> (as Howard would probably put it). God knew from the beginning what would
> appear in the last frames of the tape. Whether this required subtle
> tinkering on his part doesn't seem to me to be nearly so important.
Very well put. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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I try to make everyone's day a little more surreal. | Loren Haarsma
--Calvin (_Calvin_and_Hobbes_) | lhaarsma@opal.tufts.edu