Re: Speculation on the immune system

Steve Clark (ssclark@facstaff.wisc.edu)
Sat, 2 Sep 1995 18:12:00 -0500

>Steve wrote:
>>In fact I didn't intend to make an argument one way or the other. I think
>>that you are trying to paint me into a corner to which I will not go.
>
>I didn't paint Steve into a corner, he did that on his own. His original
>response made only one central argument, at the time he thought it
>compelling -- compelling enough to use against me. ... Well, then it's
>compelling enough to use against him. Here are Steve's words again.
>
>>It is doubtful that any heritable mutation would be adequate to
>>provide a mammalian defense system capable of adapting to
>>newly arising pathogens. With their faster generation times,
>>viruses et al. often stay one convenient step ahead of even the
>>most adaptable component the immune system, which is the
>>antigen receptor genes that undergo a high rate of somatic
>>mutation when they encounter foreign antigen. However,
>>this somatic mutation is not heritable.
>
>He made a fair argument for why the immune system must have been designed,
>and could not have originated by evolution. Yet his latest post trys to
>brush aside his own words as if they have no importance. He obscures the
>issue by diverting our attention into extraneous matters.

You give me way to much credit, Walter. Thanks anyway.

He argues that:
> 1) Theism and evolution are compatible.
> 2) Randomness is not the same as purposelessness.
> 3) Natural selection is not a random process.
>Those are tired old saws, and none of them can save him from his own
>argument above.

Folks, every now and then you encounter something that just cannot be
improved upon, and perhaps that shouldn't. Walter's post of Sept. 1, speaks
for itself.

Recently, I posted a quote from the geneticist, Steve Jones, who complained
that dealing with evolutionary language is like shovelling fog. Well,
dealing with Walter's logic is like shovelling fog with a pitchfork.

Cheers,

Steve
____________________________________________________________________________
Steven S. Clark, Ph.D. Phone: (608) 263-9137
Associate Professor FAX: (608) 263-4226
Dept. of Human Oncology and email: ssclark@facstaff.wisc.edu
UW Comprehensive Cancer Ctr
University of Wisconsin "To disdain philosophy is really to
Madison, WI 53792 be a philosopher." Blaise Pascal

But to disdain science is not to be
a scientist. Steve Clark
____________________________________________________________________________